How Systems Generate Revenue (and Sustainability) in Your Business

Megan Yelaney (00:02.19)

All right, welcome back to Business Not as Usual. You heard the amazing intro from Colie James. I’m so so happy that you are here. I feel like this has been such a long time coming. especially because we have a a very mutual shared love for Brittany Herzberg, who we have to shout out right away. but welcome, Colie, so happy that you’re here.

Colie James (00:21.792)

Meg, thank you so much. what I was thinking to myself was we have to talk to Brittany in this episode because she brings me like the most amazing people. And while I didn’t go back and like look at what the time frame was for when she first mentioned you to me, Breanna Owen was someone that she told me I needed to have on my podcast. And it took me like a full year, over a year, to have her. And then I mean, I’ve interviewed her now three times.

Megan Yelaney (00:46.39)

I love it. she’s like Brit Brittany is really one of those just like super connectors. She just knows. She’s like, I I see, I see that you’re gonna have an amazing combo. And I just love, love, loved being on your podcast. And so I was like, wait, we we already planned this ahead of time, but I’m very, very pumped for this conversation. And one reason I’m really excited about this conversation is because this is, you know, we were talking about this before we started recording, but there’s things that you can tell your clients over and over, but

They’re just not gonna pay attention to you. They’re gonna listen to someone else say it, especially if it’s not your jam, right? Systems is not my jam. That’s not my expertise. I hire that out, I get help with that, and that is your jam. That is your expertise. And so there’s so many things systems related that I’m really excited for you to talk about, just to like kind of keep nailing that down so people pay attention to it. but before we dive into all of that, I’d love to just have you share a little bit about.

How you even got into this field, how you got into systems, a little bit about your background and what led you to doing this work today.

Colie James (01:44.174)

So I don’t know if we actually discussed this on my podcast, but before I moved to Colorado, I was a college professor for 10 years. And when people are like, what field? I’m like, math and statistics. And then they give me that look. And I’m like, yeah, I mean, you know, 10 years in the classroom. And then we moved here. And I realized in the state of Colorado, like there just aren’t that many universities. Like there’s there’s basically four main ones. And my husband was doing a postdoc at one. And they have very limited community colleges, which at that point was where I was working.

And so I knew moving here meant I wasn’t going to be teaching physically in a classroom just because of circumstances. But I always thought that our move here would be temporary. So like I was still teaching online. I thought I would just get a full-time job when my husband finished his postdoc. Well, two years turned into four years. And then when he started looking for jobs, I was like, no, we’re not leaving the state of Colorado. Like, find a job here. Like I’m I’m fine. I’m never going back to the college classroom. It it’s all good. And so

My daughter was home with me and you and I have very similar pregnancy stories. We’re not going to talk about our shared trauma, but I had a lot of trauma and so she is our one and only. There will be no more. And at that point I was like, okay, I can’t go back to the classroom and I definitely don’t want to send her to daycare. Like I want to enjoy my only child for as long as I can. What should I do?

And so when we put her in preschool, I mean, I had all kinds of ideas, Meg, that actually sound ridiculous now. I wanted to be a real estate agent. I thought about opening my own child care system. But at that point, I really loved photography and I loved it before I had a kid. But all of a sudden, I was like, you know what? I bet you I could make this a business. So the last year that we were here before my husband finished his postdoc, I began doing what you would consider like portfolio building, like basically getting my ducks in a row so that when we moved.

somewhere else, I was ready to officially open my business. But then as I said, we didn’t leave. So the moment that my husband got a job here, I filled out my paperwork to be a sole proprietor in the state of Colorado and I was officially open. And I did that from 2012 until like as recently as last year.

Colie James (03:53.238)

But in 2020, I had a pandemic shift in my business because I did in home photography at that point. I also did hospital fresh 48s. Like I document you in the hospital in the first 24, 48 hours. And then I also did births. But here in Colorado during the pandemic, yeah, you couldn’t go in people’s houses. I wasn’t allowed back in a hospital for more than a year. Like, so all of that was dead. And I was like, okay.

I went on my bestie’s podcast at that point, and she interviewed me as the CRM expert. Now, at that point, I had no offer related to CRMs. I was simply helping other photographers as part of my mentoring and coaching to set up their systems. And the moment that we finished that podcast, I was like, no, this is this is my next offer. I’m about to make a course. Dubsado for photographers. I made that course. And then when I actually sold it, I sold 11 beta spots. And then I had several people.

That like, okay, Colie, that sounds good, but like, I don’t want to do a course. Can you just do it for me? And I was like, Yeah, I can do it for you. So simultaneously, I now had a course and I launched VIP day setups. And I mean, VIP day setups end up being like my full business over the last five, six years. but that’s how I went from college professor to photographer and now solely system strategist, mostly for photographers.

But honestly, I love anybody who works with clients one on one in a service provider capacity.

Megan Yelaney (05:22.6)

Mm, I love that. And it’s like we when I was on your podcast, we talked a lot about story and weaving your story and your lived experience in. And so just listening to this, I’m like, my gosh, there’s so many nuggets for your story because what you do, it makes such sense that from your background that you ended up here actually, even though the the route wasn’t, you know, linear. It’s like, well, yeah, that’s how your brain worked in that career, and you’re applying so much of that to this. So just a good reminder for everyone.

Don’t try to hide your lived experience and be like, no, I didn’t exist before my business. That’s actually what makes your current business even more, I guess, legitimate is the word I’m I’m looking for, but more so like you have that that background experience as a math and statistics college professor. I bet that helps how how you think and it it impacts how you think with your clients now.

Colie James (06:10.154)

It does. And I mean being an educator for so long, you know, you gave you have your friends. I went to grad school with all you know, a lot of different people. They’re all now currently like math professors at like research one institutions. But when I first became a photographer, several of them were like, Okay, wait. Like I don’t I don’t get it.

And it wasn’t until I mean I was one of those people that in the first year of business, I created a course for photographers to learn how to create a lifestyle family photography business. And I hadn’t even been in business for a year. I I know most people would not do that. I love it. But I did it, created a whole course, sold out every single time off of a wait list. But when I told my grad school friends, yeah, I’m a photographer, but I also educate other photographers and I created this course. then they all shut up. They were like, no, that makes way more sense. Okay, no.

believe in this pivot, it’s gonna work. But it’s like, me just being a photographer wasn’t gonna get it for them. But the moment that I said I’m educating others, they were like, Okay, this is not just a phase. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They’re like some time.

Megan Yelaney (07:12.43)

A hundred percent. I love that. And it’s just it just shows we’re also multifaceted, right? You have that creative side that you love with the the photography and then you have that math and statistics side and the data driven and really looking at the system. So thinking about systems, this is some again, like I said in the beginning, this is something that I think

for a lot of my clients, and I’m gonna lump myself in here, we get overwhelmed by it. And it I know it doesn’t have to be complicated. Brittany talks about this with SEO. It doesn’t have to be complicated, right? And we just overcomplicate it. And I think especially for people who do consider themselves more of that creative visionary, it’s like, I don’t want to get into the nitty-gritty. I’m just gonna figure it out when it happens. But then all of a sudden, every new client that comes on, you’re taking so much extra time to onboard them, to make sure they’re good. Things slip through the cracks.

And all of that time, when you really add it up, which I’ve done in the past, I’m like, wow, I could have a lot more clients with all that time. and it’s just you’re doing stuff you you can’t stand. So before we get into some of the like customer journey discussion that I really want to dive into, I’d love to talk about how systems generate revenue and how like pulling back to create the system will literally make you more money. Because I think a lot of people who are listening, they’re spending

Most of their time on client acquisition, marketing, sales. And they’re like, I just I need to get more clients before I can even think about systems. So why is that kind of backward thinking?

Colie James (08:36.046)

Well it’s really interesting to think about systems as a form of outsourcing, but that’s where I’m gonna take this conversation. I think that a lot of people that are scared about systems think that they need a virtual assistant to handle things for them so that they can spend more time with clients. Whereas I would argue that a good CRM, even at $50, $60 a month, is the cheapest employee that you’re ever gonna have in your business. But it can do so much for you if you take the time to kind of sit down and think about what your systems

need to be and then you implement them in a tool. And I think that that is where the disconnect is probably for a lot of your audience. And to be honest, you too, Meg, because if you automatically jump into this tool needs to do this for me, and you don’t sit down and actually think about what it is that you want to do with the clients first.

Jumping into a tool is overwhelming because first you don’t know what you want it to do. And then second, you’re trying to set it up inside the tool all at the same time. So when people say, What’s the first step of setting up systems? I’m like a piece of paper and a pen and an hour in a corner with some music, like literally. I just want you to write down all the things that you’re doing with your clients. Then we can start to have a nuanced conversation about what can actually be automated inside of a CRM, what you still need to be responsible for. And hey, down

The line, maybe there really are some things that you need to outsource to a VA. But I think people just jump over the client experience design without thinking about the fact that that is what gives you the roadmap to having successful systems. I mean, systems in a CRM is tech. You can hire somebody to help you with that. You can, you know, use customer service from DeBsado, Honey Book, 17 hats, all of those CRMs to get your questions answered.

But where you actually have to start is well, what the hell do I want to do with my clients in the first place?

Megan Yelaney (10:28.108)

Yeah, what’s gonna really support them? And that’s I think that’s why I really love your perspective and how you take systems is you really think about it from a client experience lens. Like, how is this gonna serve the client? How are they gonna get better results? And I mean, I just had an interesting experience the last couple of weeks with some unexpected sales come through. All previous clients, all clients who wanted to up level, continue on, go to the next step, right? Because

We we serve them. We’re there for them. We client experience is so important. And I actually lacked on my marketing efforts a little bit over the last two weeks in a way in for my standards, the way I normally would, right? And I said, you know, this is a busy season. We have to take a step back and just like focus on our current people and it’ll all happen as it will. And it ended up, we ended up making more than we had originally planned because of that.

And so it’s just, I think, a reminder. So many times people are again so stressed on bringing more and more and more. If you really double down on serving your current people, not only will they continue, but they’re gonna refer you like crazy. You’re gonna be the go-to that they’re sharing with everyone. And that is referrals are the best way to get new clients because they’re usually the most fun clients too. So I think it’s just just want to highlight that because the client experience is like such a big piece of what you see.

Colie James (11:42.937)

Yeah.

When it’s funny because I, you know, we all get this idea stuck in your head. I don’t know if it’s just me. I mean, I don’t have diagnosed ADHD, but like now that I’m in my mid forties, I feel like I get an idea and I literally cannot move on until I have fully fleshed it out, done all of the things. But in the last, I would say seven months, the thing that I have talked about over and over again is my three R framework. It’s you want to create a rave-worthy client experience that brings you more rave reviews, referrals, and repeat clients.

And so you just nailed two of the three just by talking. And if we want to take a step back and kind of bring this into the conversation that we’re having right now, all you need is a system. You simply need a system that when someone finishes your container for the first time, what is it that you want to offer them next? I think a lot of us are afraid that someone will turn us down and say no. And so we don’t want to make the ask. We think.

if they had a good client experience, they’ll just come back when they’re ready. Yeah, that’s the quickest way to lose money. All you literally have to do is put them in front of it. I recently did a podcast episode where I talked about this is not like a a service provider example, but I think everybody can understand this. I am a Disney adult. I am a Disney fanatic. I have a pass, but for the first time I went on a Disney cruise. And in case you don’t know that they do this, before you step foot off the boat.

off the ship. Ooh, the people are gonna come for me. An opportunity to pay $250 down as a placeholder on your next cruise. Now the part of this that’s amazing is that it’s fully refundable for two years. So like if you change your mind, it’s fine. But of course I paid them $250 for my next cruise before I got off the ship. And I think that people just don’t realize it’s that easy.

Colie James (13:33.502)

All you have to do in your expertise is tell someone what the logical next step is.

for them to continue to work with you. And most people will bite. And I mean, even if it’s only 25%, that’s 25% of the people that you wouldn’t have retained if you hadn’t asked in the first place. So like that kind of system is like super important. And when we talk about taking the time to build the system to generate revenue in your business, that’s exactly what we’re talking about. When I work with people to create the offboarding, which includes the three R’s, yes, it takes us

A couple hours to like plan it, create the form, create the booking magnet, if you will, that you know, you give them a link and they’re able to book. That takes a couple hours, but then every person that you send it to that says yes and pays you, that’s revenue that you might have gotten eventually down the line, but now it’s an actual world thing right now. So that’s just one way that taking a few hours to create one microsystem can bring revenue into your business.

Megan Yelaney (14:37.782)

I think that gives such good I was gonna say one of my questions was how long does it take to set up different systems? And I know there’s that’s and there’s so many different kinds, but in general, like someone who says, Okay, I wanna bring on, I wanna have consistent group clients come into my program. I need a good onboarding, I need a good like mid check point check in and offboarding. Is there like an average amount of hours just so they can mentally think that they need to set aside? Cause I think people probably think it’s so much more complicated than it actually is.

Colie James (15:06.786)

I mean, it depends. If you’re sitting down and you you’re not actually getting help with like the tech implementation, I might say that it’s, you know, it’s probably gonna add on at least fifteen to twenty extra hours for you to try to figure out that part. But I mean, I’ve worked with people that like legitimately if we add it up less than twenty hours, you have a full system. Like you have a full system and then we test it and then we refine it. And then we take it and we duplicate it for your other offers. Because one thing that I’ve started doing inside of my current signature offer is this one offer.

You have to pick one. I don’t care how many offers you have because the thought process of getting one done from beginning to end is like such relief when you see how easy it can really be. I mean, I offer, I offer a 60-day program, right? The first 30 days is is dedicated to getting one offer done. Like whether it’s family photography, you know, SEO strategy, whatever it is, 30 days to get the first one done.

Most people take everything we did in the first 30 days and duplicate it for an entire second offer, updated emails, updated forms, all of it in less than a week. I mean, some people have done it in a couple hours, but like that that shows you that it takes a lot of effort to think through it originally. But then once you’ve done it one time, you just do it over and over again until all of your offers are set up with amazing systems that buy you back time in your business and also generate revenue going forward.

Megan Yelaney (16:31.744)

Mm-hmm. And that’s like what you said, buying back time. I think that’s the biggest thing of of setting this up, taking a step back to before you you go, my gosh, I don’t time for this. That 15, 20 hours, let’s say that’s what it takes, that is going to give you so much time back in the future. And you know, something else, I was just doing this to client last week and they were they’re still finalizing some of their offer and getting really clear. And they were spending so much time on content. And we still need because this was before we started working together. And I was like, you what? Full permission.

Take the week off of Instagram. Zero content. You don’t need to post anything. You don’t need to plan anything. Like, what? I’m like, because we need to clear up where we’re sending people. So not that it’s a waste, but it feels like it a little bit if that’s not solid. So it’s it just kind of makes me think of this. It’s like, hey, before we go, let’s bring an influx of people into this offer. Are we gonna be able to handle them? Are we gonna be able to serve them in the way we want to? Let’s set that system up. And then you just there’s this confidence that you get to.

That really makes a difference in your messaging and in your marketing. If you’re not if you’re like, I’m kinda scared to take all these new people on because I don’t know what’s gonna happen the when they come in, it might break. It really helps you show up confidently because you’re like, I can handle this now. I know I can.

Colie James (17:44.398)

Absolutely. And I don’t think that I realized how important that was until I worked with one client. She’s a personal organizer. So definitely not my normal photographer. But she was a honeybook user and she literally had no contact form on her website because she knew that she didn’t want to bring in clients with back ends that couldn’t support it. And she was also a full-time teacher. So that’s part of the story. But what was really interesting was, you know, we sat down, we planned out this amazing client experience and system for her. And then she

Put her contact form up, and I think it was in within three days she had somebody inquire and fully book her, which brought her back like half of the investment of working with me. But like then she had the confidence and she could actually see the systems in process with this first client. I mean, and all she had to do was turn on the contact form because the person found her off of Google.

Like, you know, she had been doing the thing. She had a podcast, she had a website, but she was too afraid to let not one person in before she set up her systems. And then she turned it on and it was awesome. And I do feel like in the content world, people think that you need to make content over and over again to bring in the new clients. But if you bring in all of these clients and your marketing works, which hey, I want your marketing to work for you. But if it does work.

And you bring in all these clients and they have a shitty experience, they’re not gonna come back. They’re not gonna refer you. So really, you need to be able to take a couple days, couple of weeks to set these systems up so that you know that you are really giving your clients the best experience that you can when they come in. And guess what? If setting up the systems buys you back at least 10 hours a week.

From client management, you can use that 10 hours to go find new clients. And when they come in, every one of those clients you’re gonna save 10 hours. So I mean it’s like a compounding effect that people just can’t seem to hit pause long enough to do it to then move on.

Megan Yelaney (19:40.246)

Exactly. So it’s full this is your permission. You can take a week or two off of promotion, get this all set up, and then my gosh, you’re gonna it’s it’s sometimes subconscious, I think, too. We don’t even realize that we’re like putting that that nervous energy or that

Hey, I’m gonna promote, but don’t hire me because I’m nervous about what’s gonna happen once you come in, you know. Kind of, I don’t think people realize sometimes that that’s what they’re what they’re coming, you know, to their marketing with. And so this is gonna change the game for them. I love this. So, one thing that you when we’re talking about different things we want to talk about, I love how you phrase this. You said, Why planning your customer journey yields a better client experience for you and your client? So, I mean, I hear

And I use the term all the time, customer journey. I’d love to hear from your perspective what you mean when you say customer journey, specifically in relation to systems.

Colie James (20:29.506)

Let me put my professor hat on. No, customer journey is literally just the collection of touch points that you have with your clients. It is every single time you ask them to do something, you send an email, you send them a text message, you have a call with them, you need to go and give them feedback, you need to set up this thing. It’s just everything that you do with your client inside of your offer.

Literally listed on a piece of paper. Now the experience part is how your client experiences it while they’re in it. That’s the difference between the journey and the actual experience. And so that is why both are so important. You have to map the journey first, and then you design the elements, the assets.

Around that journey to get people from A to Z, if you will, feeling like they’ve really gotten what they paid for, feeling like it was an experience that was worth raving and sharing to their friends and their business friends about. so that is like the main thing between journey and experience. And you’re right, a lot of people use them

use them as the same and they’re not, but they all get you to the same result, which is working with clients in a fantastic way that gets them coming back and kind of positions you as the expert in whatever it is that you’re doing with these clients.

Megan Yelaney (21:48.416)

I love this. And you know, I love talking about frameworks. And you as you were saying that, I was like, this kind of goes hand in hand with that. It’s like it gives it almost gives a structure to your framework so that it’s like, okay, at the end of this natural first phase, what is your checkpoint? What are how are we making sure they’re doing good? and I think something that I’ve realized over the years, especially since the program I’m running now, my my main offer, I only started a year and a half ago. So it’s relatively new.

And even though I’ve launched many offers before that, every new offer feels like you’re kind of a baby deer learning how to walk again. I’m just like, what how do we do this again? You know? And and it’s not that extreme, but there’s this like excitement and nervousness. And you have to learn what the client actually does need. And that’s why I love like having a beta round and going, hey, this is fully test. This is gonna be the lowest price, this is gonna be most hands-on, so we can see what touch points you actually need.

So I guess one of my questions to you for people listening who have either a signature offer that they’ve been running for a while, or they’re like, I feel like I need to overhaul that. Like, not that clients aren’t getting great results, but there’s something missing and I I can’t figure out what. Is there any advice on like how to how to find what the gaps are in your customer journey so that they can go, maybe this is just like I’m giving too much or I’m not giving enough, or I have too many or too little touch points. Does that make sense?

Colie James (23:07.86)

It does. And it’s weird. I’m gonna talk about my own signature offer because like you, Meg, my signature offer has been around for exactly a year. I just celebrated the first year and now I I got rid of all of my other offers. Like this is the one I’m gonna die with, I swear. I think we all say that, but it’s true. So I started this with two people and one of them was a previous client and one was a new client. And basically the new client got on a call with me and he said, Well, I kinda wanna put together my own offer. I want this and I want this. Can we do it? And I was like, Well

actually David, I have this thing that I’ve just been wanting to put out there. It has that and that. And then it also has these other three things. This is the price point I’m thinking as a bait around, do you want it? He was like, Yeah. my gosh. I went home for three hours straight. I created a sales page because I can’t sell anything without a full sales page. I’m just I’m weird like that. But I I put them together so quickly. So I put it together. I sent it to the old client who had literally been waiting six months for me to send it to her. And then I sent it to the new one, had two brand new clients in less than twenty four hours. Yay.

Now what they experienced a year ago and what my current clients experience now are completely different things. I mean, when I first put it together, I had no idea what I was doing. Like I I thought I knew what the result was. I thought I knew the vehicle to get them there, but the key

To figuring your shit out, Meg, if we will, is that you have to talk to the clients who are in it. And so I have so many case studies on my podcast. Yes, it helps me sell my offer, but it also helped me refine it. I realized that a lot of people were feeling shy about scheduling calls with me, even though I told them, Would you like to schedule a call? Would you like to schedule a call? Well, I heard it enough times to where I was like,

This needs to change. So now in 2026, everybody coming into my offer, we pre-schedule your first four weekly calls. So that there is no excuse for you not to have a call. But I wouldn’t have known to do that if I hadn’t asked them a very specific question in multiple touch points. And several said, I really wish I’d known how valuable the calls were. And I started scheduling them from the beginning.

Colie James (25:11.756)

So I think that the biggest thing that we can do as business owners is be willing to listen to our clients. Be willing to let them tell you what is working about your offer and also what they wish was different. Now, every once in a while someone tells you something and you’re like, Yeah, I’m not doing that. You were expecting too much. Listen, I’m not telling you to cater to those people. But like I heard the same thing three times, and these were not people who were feeling needy. These were people that were like, I got great results from you.

I just wish I had done this earlier. And I mean, I could list several things that I’ve done to refine my offer in the last year based on what they told me, but I have a system for asking for the feedback. Every time, you know, we’re on a call, sometimes they’re telling me these things without me asking. But also I have a midpoint form. I have one that I send them at the end. I have an offboarding call. Do I do ever do I do an offboarding call for everybody now? No. But in the beginning,

Every single person got an offboarding call. An hour. That is a lot of time. But that was for me. That wasn’t for them. I mean, I love my fights to death in case any of them are listening. But also, I did it so that I could have you tell me what I needed to know in a conversation. Because also asking the question is very different than giving them a form. I think you need both in the beginning because people will tell you things that they don’t think to write down in the midst of having a conversation. So like

Feedback is so important and you have to put your big girl panties on and be willing to ask for it.

Megan Yelaney (26:43.566)

I love this. And I think something you just hit on is people are so nervous for feedback because what if it’s negative? What if it’s, hey, I just didn’t feel like I got XYZ? It’s just feedback. And it’s, and I think it’s so hard for us not to take that personally because it is our our offer. We created it. But if we can try to like separate ourselves as a person from the offer and go, hey, this is just a system that I need set up. This is just this thing. We cannot get like so emotionally attached to it because.

But we’re all human. I’ve definitely read things sometimes where I’m like, man, and the people pleaser and me is like, no, but you have to like every single thing. And it’s like, one, everyone works differently too. And so you can’t please everyone. And that’s where I love that you mentioned there’s gonna be those outliers that will expect something that you’re like, this is never gonna happen, because this is just too much and or outside the scope of the program, right? and so I think just getting that feedback, the the positive and maybe the negative, is going to really, really help you just take that from a as a

business owner and a more detective mindset and go, okay, this is what I need to apply and this is what I don’t. And I’m sure you’ve been in this boat. I was talking to a mastermind I’m in about how sometimes I think because of those people pleasing tendencies, we want everyone to have the best results, of course. And the truth of the matter is when people come in, especially a group program, you’re gonna have your your percentage that just disappear no matter how much you chase them down. And you’re like,

I’m here for you. Don’t suffer in silence. There, some people are just gonna go away no matter what you set up, right? And I’ve definitely been in that camp where I’ve redone curriculum or I’ve redone the system when I didn’t need to because I was so focused on those very few. I’m curious if that’s something that your clients or you have experienced, because I think it’s it’s just something that I’ve seen come up a lot lately is like overhauling things for maybe not even the ideal client.

Colie James (28:39.31)

So it’s kind of, I think that I have personally avoided doing that because of the way that I’ve always done like a beta offer. And like basically I know that I overdeliver everybody in a beta offer. I mean, I’ve done it every single time I’ve ever done something because I’m trying to figure out what the actual results are that you need. And if you don’t need it, I pull it out. So I think that that’s a step that a lot of people skip is identifying the actual results and knowing that it might change. And so now I have seven results that I expect everybody insists.

In session to get. If you get the first five and you don’t get the last two, I do still consider it to be a success. And you know, it’s funny, the last two are related to the three R’s. If we don’t officially set up a referral program or the official mechanism to rebook your clients, I’m okay with that. Because for a lot of people, they might not be ready. But like we talk about it, we plan it. But if you don’t actually implement it, it’s okay because the first five are the ones that I consider to be like out of my program. But then you have

to when you finally get what your core results are that you want everybody to walk away with, then you have to go and look at every single person who’s been through your program and identify if they got those five core results. As long as you were like trying to get them there the whole time, if that makes sense. And for the people who didn’t, was it you? I can I can safely say it was not me in a lot of I love that. Like, you know, but I have the data. I have that I told them on the calls. I sent them the videos of how to do it. I, you know, I did all these things. But if

You have someone who really and truly tried their best and they didn’t get the five, and you really do think that it was you didn’t provide enough support, you didn’t, that’s when you make changes. That’s when if you feel like maybe you need an additional support call, maybe there needs to be a little bit more accountability with you or with peers if it’s a group program. I mean, you can start to make those things, but if you are not identifying the results.

and tracking them in something like Airtable or a Google Doc for heaven’s sakes. Like just somewhere that you can look at it all. That is what makes the biggest difference in delivering a five star, you know, client experience, regardless what your offer is.

Megan Yelaney (30:47.714)

Yeah. I love this. And it’s so funny as you’re like talking this whole episode. I’m like seeing the just the professor in you come out. So I’m like, my gosh, this is so amazing. And you know, I a long time ago, I had someone come in and help me create and redo and refine my curriculum who that was their whole thing, was just curriculum specialists, also a previous teacher, not surprising. they were I don’t I don’t think they were a professor, but they were in high school, high school teacher. And

I just I love how I think taking that perspective, the reason I bring that up is I think one of the hardest things for people, and I know sometimes this is really hard for me. I’ve gotten better at it as I’ve, you know, been through business, is translating what’s natural to you in your head to your clients. And I know I’m saying that because I know so many people listening here ha have that struggle because they’re not teachers. They didn’t, they didn’t, they don’t know how to naturally go teach someone what’s in it’s like it’s just in my head. How do I

How do I make that a curriculum? How do I make that a framework? So I know this is like a whole other topic. We could go down a rabbit hole in. So any just like insight into that, because I feel like that that trips a lot of people up.

Colie James (31:57.23)

I mean, it’s honestly weird that you’re saying it because my master’s degree is in curriculum instruction. Like I I do that, like be f when I was a college professor, part of what I did was I was in the era of when online education was born in like colleges. So half of what I did for half of my career was create online math courses and basically go through and make sure that you know they were meeting the students where they were in terms of their preferred learning styles. And so I think that that’s the part that we forget just because the calls were

Yeah.

Are you attracting people that the calls are how they learn best as well? And I mean, I’m not saying that you have to do everything for everyone, but when you sit down and you think about the best way for you to communicate, the best way for you to learn, the best way that your clients can get results inside your offer, and you make sure that in your messaging and the way that it’s set up, that you are identifying who it is best for. Because like right now, I’m doing it done with you. That is not.

For everyone. I mean, I have a specific type of person who is capable of doing it on their own, but they want guidance, they want hand holding, and they would literally never pay anybody to do it for them because they have this innate need to learn how the systems work from the beginning. That is who I’m targeting now. That is very different than who I charged $5,000 for a DeSado setup for two, three years ago. Those are not the same people. And so as much work as you can do to kind of get what’s in

In your brain out. And here’s the thing: it is not a skill that everyone has. And so maybe you do need to seek out that offer strategist or the curriculum specialist that will help you take what you do so well and package it in a way to where it is actually sellable. Because it doesn’t matter how

Colie James (33:49.034)

how great your results can be if you can’t communicate it to the people who need it in a way to where they identify that that is actually what they need to get the result that they want. I know I just said a lot of words, but like sometimes you can’t do that. Sometimes you are too close to your own offer, to your own genius. I mean and

Megan Yelaney (34:01.591)

No, but yeah.

Colie James (34:09.814)

When I say this, I’m not even saying that you have to go pay a specialist. Like in some of these masterminds, there are probably people who have way different skills than you do. I mean, but making sure that you are seeking out a coach when you need one, seeking out business besties who can learn and grow with you is a way for you to make sure that you are not the only person putting eyes on an offer before you try to sell it. Whereas if you showed it to me and you said nobody bought it, I could probably give you five or six reasons in like a three-minute loom on why.

I think it didn’t sell, and most of them would probably be true, but you can’t do that for yourself. And it’s okay that you can’t do it for yourself.

Megan Yelaney (34:47.214)

Cause you’re like, this is great. This is exactly what I do. Yeah. And and everyone learns differently. Everyone processes differently. And you know, one thing that I’m not we we have like such different, such a variety of people who listen in terms of like what their businesses are. But especially when it’s comes to teaching content, I know I have a bunch of people who listen who are in the business coaching realm. Content is such one of it’s one of those topics. I was talking about this in my mastermind the other day that just trips so many people up.

And myself included, right? We all even even when we teach it, we’re like, man, I’m I’m struggling with content this week or this month or whatever it is. And I think the hardest part about teaching that, and this can apply to many things, of course, is it’s such an individual kind of task. Everyone will approach how they execute content, how they plan, how they sit down and do it, how they make it, if they’re outsourcing, like there’s so many different ways to attack content, to approach it, right?

And so one of the things that I was really resistant to in the very beginning of of the program I’m running now was having a set system for clients because I’m like, it’s just so unique to each person. And I know I attract a lot of people who are type A, want to follow the system. They’re really good students. They’re like, I am following it to a T. And if I don’t, then it’s I’m it’s gonna break. And some people will follow it and it works wonderfully. And some people follow it and it doesn’t fit their brain. It doesn’t fit their natural type. And that’s where I go, great, let’s.

Edit it for you. So I’ve always been so resistant to being like, this is the content system for you. And I actually had this breakthrough. I’m bringing this up because I this breakthrough like this past week actually with a couple clients. And I was like, we’re a year and a half into this damn program and I am still changing things. And the reason is I realized there’s like these three main entry points that most people have to create content. And I saw the light bulb go off when I was explaining it on the call literally yesterday. I’m like, all right.

We’re gonna go back and we’re gonna re-record this damn video. And I I sometimes get like, man, am I ever gonna be done creating curriculum? Am I ever gonna be done updating stuff? And it’s like, no, because exactly no. And that’s okay because now I’m like, this is going to help land and make things click. And because not everyone’s gonna think like me, not everyone’s gonna think like this other client, everyone’s gonna be different. And yes, I can’t create 15 million ways to do it, but

Megan Yelaney (37:05.804)

I have three solid approaches now that I’m like, I know you can pick one of these and then run with it and make it your own. So I don’t know if that lands with anyone, but I’m like, I’m in that zone right now. So I’m sure if anyone’s like, man, I feel like I’m constantly recreating stuff, that’s okay. That means you’re just making it better and better. And you’re really you care about your clients. You’re thinking about them.

Colie James (37:24.088)

Well, it’s so interesting. I literally had to get a pen and scribble something down so that I didn’t forget it with my squirrely brain. I’m wondering how this lands for you, Meg, thinking about it as a system versus a framework. And what I mean by that is I think that our job, or at least my job, I’ll just take ownership of this, is to figure out the framework that you need and the actual system that you use to implement it can be customized to every single person. Like and I I don’t think I’ve ever thought of it this way, which is why I s

Megan Yelaney (37:52.406)

How you just said that, I’m like Yes Can you say that one more time just for everyone?

Colie James (37:56.46)

So I think that as people who are teaching other people how to, you know, do the things in our zone of genius, I think that

We should be thinking about creating frameworks. Overarching, like you said, you have three different ways. That’s a framework, I’m sure. I mean, you could write it down. And then how someone actually implements the framework is the system. And that is very personal, very customized to every person in their business, depending on what their offer is, all of the things. So I don’t know if it’s like my professor brain, but about a year ago, it was it was right as I was trying to figure out this whole systems and session is my signature offer. And I didn’t want to do it for people.

Anymore, but when you’re doing it with them, it’s more important that you like lay all the things out because you’re not the person that’s responsible for the implementation. And one of the things that I realized was everybody comes to me and they’re like, Colie, I just need to fix my workflows. And I’m like, no, like you don’t even know what goes in the damn workflows right now. We have to figure out what your customer journey is and then write the client communication that guides every step. And so I was like, okay, this like surprise and delight again, because I was asking all of my

Done for you clients? How did this land? Did you like your systems? Are you using them? What are the results? Or what surprised you? And what so many of my clients said was, you know, Colie, I just I love the emails that you wrote for me. Guys, I’m not a copywriter, like by any stretch of the imagination. And I was like, okay, but like what do they like about the emails? What is making my emails better than what they had before? And I was like,

It’s because this is the way that I think about client communication. And I was like, okay, what would the framework be? So then I created my three P framework, which is every single email that you send a client needs to clearly identify the purpose, needs to show off your personality, and needs to give them a preview of where they are in the process. Once I figured out that regardless of what you’re doing with your emails, it’s those three things that need to appear in every single one. Then I figured out how to teach it to other people. Then I

Colie James (39:57.914)

figured out how to give them the framework so that they could go do the work and implement it. And so I mean framework feels like this very lofty thing. I mean it certainly was for me when I was still in grad school. Like I think I thought of frameworks back then way differently than I think of them now. But all of us have frameworks in us and that is how we can communicate our zone of genius to other people and then help them figure out a system to actually use it.

Megan Yelaney (40:24.642)

Yeah. I’m so glad you you scribbled that down because that was like very that’s gonna probably be the clip at the beginning of the podcast, honestly. Brittany, mark that down as one of the the the the quotes to quote. I love that. Well, this has been we could talk for so so long. but this has been amazing. And there’s just so many other little nuggets that I want to go in. So we’re gonna have to definitely have you back. one of the repeats for sure. because there’s there’s just so much I want to dive into, but

I know you have a special gift for my listeners. your private podcast systems at sell. Can you share a little bit about that? And of course we’ll link it in the show notes.

Colie James (40:58.786)

Yeah, so it’s called systems that sell. And it’s actually it’s one of those things that I like figured out again in like the last six months. My professor brain makes me tell you what to do, when to do it, and how to do it. But what I realized is I needed a way to explain to people why before they jumped into the exactly how you do it. And so I created this, you know, four episode private podcast. You can binge it in less than an hour, but it is really gonna help you reframe why systems are

worth the time now and how it can actually impact your business going forward. So I mean it’s just a little bit of like, I guess what we would call mindset coaching. But if you go to ColeyJames.com slash Meg, you will be able to download that private podcast.

Megan Yelaney (41:42.956)

I love it. Our own special link. We’ll put it in these show notes and then anywhere else people can connect with you.

Colie James (41:48.366)

So I have my own podcast, which Meg will probably be on there by the time this airs. It is Business First Creatives. And just anything that you want to learn about me, go to ColeyJames.com. socials, I’m on threads at Colie James. I am often ranting and raving about all the things that we talked about in today’s episode.

Megan Yelaney (42:05.57)

I love it. I love it. And Colie has one of the best websites. Like when I was working with my design team on mine and like how I wanted my blog and all this stuff, I would just keep sending them your examples. I’m like, I like hers. I like her website. Please go to her website.

Colie James (42:21.236)

Thank you. I mean, we already mentioned Brittany, but in the last week, because again, I maybe we didn’t say that during this episode, but I went on a recent business trip with my husband at the same time Brittany was doing her sprint, and so I did my sprint that week. I completely re-hauled all of my pages, not the design, but like the SEO behind it. And so now I feel like my website is gonna work even harder for me now that I kind of put all those places, all those places.

Megan Yelaney (42:45.592)

Amazing. Well, everyone go check it out. It’s like not only for all of the resources and services, but but well, signature offer, but also just the beauty of it. It’s it’s really gorgeous website. Thank you so much, Colie. This has been amazing. very worth the wait. I’m so excited for everyone to listen. Go grab that private podcast, go to Coley’s website, and we will see you in the next episode and the next interview.