The Anti-Social Lead Strategy with Holly Haynes

Meg Yelaney:

Welcome back to Business Not As Usual. I have a very special guest, Holly Haynes, on today, and I already mentioned this in the intro, but it’s just so freaking cool that Holly is also a twin mom. We love twin moms, obviously, and the second Holly and I started to chat through email and then Voxer, I was like, oh, this is gonna be a fast friend because there’s just this like special secret club that we’re all a part of and we just get each other. So I’m really pumped to have Holly. Holly is a business and marketing strategist who helps women build businesses that honor their time values and real life without the pressure to post daily. And that is something really huge that we’re gonna talk about. She’s a former 500 strategist turned entrepreneur. She grew her company while working full-time and raising her twins, retiring herself and her husband in under 2 years. How fricking cool is that? She is the founder of Anti-Social School. I’m obsessed with that name. The host of the Top 100 Crush the Rush podcast and creator of the Crush the Rush community and planner. Her signature strategies and passive income systems have helped thousands of women scale sustainably, ditch the scroll and grow businesses that support the life they actually want. I am so excited for this interview. Welcome to the podcast, Holly.

Holly Haynes:

Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be here. I feel like we’ve known each other behind the scenes for a long time, and it’s finally— our time is here. I know, I know.

Meg Yelaney:

You know, I realized too, I didn’t even ask how do you pronounce your last name. I just like assumed.

Holly Haynes:

I hope I’m great.

Meg Yelaney:

Okay, great. I’m like, yeah, seems pretty straightforward, but.

Holly Haynes:

You just never know.

Meg Yelaney:

So I’m glad I got that. It just hit me. I’m like, wait, did I like botch that. Anywho, really, really pumped. I have, you know, my audience hears so much about messaging and social and all of that, and messaging is, you know, online and offline, of course, but that’s mostly what I do and what I help people with and what I have a lot of my guests on. But a huge thing that I’ve personally plugged into since having my boys is offline strategies, is a lot of collaborations. You and I met through a community that’s all about collaborations. It’s already been, it’s paying off handsomely already because of the people I’ve met. But it’s been something I’ve really prioritized the last couple years. And so I’m really excited to talk to an actual expert on that, because I am not an expert. I’ve just dabbled in it and been like, oh cool, this is kind of working. So I’m really excited for you to share, because I think a lot of people, especially going into this year, are very, um, exhausted with social, and especially the landscape of our specific country. It’s just very exhausting and tiring. And sad to be on this app, and specifically Instagram, that if we can give people some hope and some strategies to actually build their business offline, I mean, that’s such a win. So thank you for being here today. Yeah, really excited. I love to start it off, you know, just a little bit about who you are. Um, where did you get started in business? How, how did you get to even creating the Anti-Social School? So take us back. And yeah, I mean, it’s all by.

Holly Haynes:

By happy accident, right? So I like to say that I started my business a little bit later in life, so So I officially started in January of 2020, which, what a year to start.

Meg Yelaney:

Oh my gosh, that’s wild.

Holly Haynes:

At 41, right? So, um, I started at 41 and my background is corporate strategy. Like I worked for Fortune 500 companies, like for the C-suite in consulting for a really long time. So like entrepreneurship was not on the table. I joke that like it wasn’t a major in college. Like it, it was just so different than like what it is now. And I, I feel like we’re lucky that it has shifted so much. Like there’s so much opportunity.

Meg Yelaney:

Yeah.

Holly Haynes:

Um, but it actually started with ice cream, and this is a really funny story. So I was getting my MBA in strategy, and I was sitting in the back of a finance class, and I always say, like, I don’t love numbers, but I know that you need to know them, right? So I’m like dreading the class, and this woman, Jenny Brittenbauer, she owns Jenny’s Ice Cream. If you know that, I think it’s nationwide now. It started in Columbus, Ohio, which is where I’m from, but it’s like a like a craft ice cream. So there’s really cool flavors like lemon blueberry or like, um, dark chocolate coconut cake or something. I mean, they’re just like crazy flavors.

Meg Yelaney:

Oh, that’s so cool.

Holly Haynes:

He came in and I was like, what is she gonna talk about, right? And her whole conversation was about how her business model is about giving back to the community. And at the time she was like really, really small. If you go look her up now, she’s like all done all kind of philanthropy, is like founded multiple businesses. So she like followed through on what she was going to say. And I was just like, wow, this really isn’t about numbers or a business. Like, this is about like actually having a job that you’re really passionate about, and you’re like giving back in a way that you could do for a really long time. And I remember sitting in the back of class being like, oh God, I’m in the wrong place. Like, this is not the place I should be. And at the time, like I was fortunate enough to have my graduate degree paid for, and then you, you know, have to work for a while. And so it was kind of just this like thing in my head that went off, and I was like, okay, we’re just gonna like set it there for a minute. Then I ended up having twins, and it sort of went down this path. And I remember driving, you know, a couple years later in the car, it’s like 7 in the morning on the way to work, and I was like, I don’t know if I can do this, like this exact thing, for the next 10 years. And it was like the same feeling that I had in class, and You know, everyone’s like, well, what’s your story? And I’m like, well, I don’t have this like big moment. It was like all these like little moments that were like, you need to be doing something different. Like you can’t keep doing this for like the next 10 years. And the girls, I have twin daughters, were like really, really little. And I’m like leaving the house at 7 and like getting home at 6 and they go to bed really early. And I was like, there’s got to be like another side to this, right? Um, so organically I was like, okay, I am just going to try to make the best of what I have. So I started. With what I did have, which was my corporate career. And I started leaning into like forming like mentorship groups. Lean In was like a really big thing, like starting women’s groups, starting teaching, you know, people who were like a little bit, you know, younger than me or maybe not as far along as in my career. And long story short, I had the idea of let’s start a podcast about this because people kept asking me the same questions. They kept asking me like, how are you doing all of this while you’re working full-time and you have twins? And you know, life is a lot. And at the time we were in the middle of a pandemic. And so I was like, yeah, well, I don’t know, I’ll just start sharing it. And so very organically it started sharing, you know, how we were growing and scaling, what our business model looked like, how I got started. Like if you go back to our podcast at the very beginning, I literally share like every single step along the way. It’s like a business MBA, but like in entrepreneurship. Um, and so that’s really like what we sort of started leaning into and then sort of built a product suite on top of that. But the, the piece of the story that I want you to take away is I listened to like my gut feeling of like I should be doing something different, and then I used the podcast as this like platform for me to test ideas, and then we built our product suite and our business. Off of that.

Meg Yelaney:

Oh, I love that. I love that you first built like the community and the brand in a sense, and then went, okay, what are they asking for? What do they need? Because it’s just so much easier to sell to an audience who’s already like, hey, we need this versus I have this thing, I have to go find the audience now. So that’s pretty cool. I love that you— and it accidentally happened. And that’s pretty cool because I feel like the last few guests are honestly more than a few. I can’t even remember the last guest that it was an accident. It’s like almost all of them really wanted this, were very entrepreneurial since they were younger kind of thing. So it’s so cool to see that you started only 6 years ago during such a wild time and now built it to what it is. So it’s pretty freaking cool.

Holly Haynes:

You know, I never in a million years thought that like I would replace like a 22-year corporate salary. Like, I was like, that’s not going to happen. Also, my husband stayed home with our twins because putting two in daycare is like, oh my gosh, like that’s more than our mortgage, like times two. Yeah. So we were in a position where like it was very risky for me to leave my corporate job or to start a business. And so I did, I didn’t believe it at first. I had to like step into that of like, oh, maybe this is possible.

Meg Yelaney:

Did you wait to leave your corporate job for a bit or did you right off the bat when you started?

Holly Haynes:

It took me 2 years. Okay. So, and again, I didn’t believe it. And I actually, my husband was the one, I actually took him to a business retreat with me and he was like, all these people are doing this. Like, why are you not doing this? Like, why is this not a full-time thing? And I was like, what? Are you serious? So I had to like, you know, have somebody believe in me and a little bit more than I believed in myself. And then we sort of decided as a family to take, yeah. The risk together, which could be like a whole episode in itself.

Meg Yelaney:

We’ll have to have you back for round 2 because that’s a really good topic that I definitely want to dive into as well. Oh my gosh. And it’s— it really is. It has to be a family thing. It has to be all together because otherwise business can be so all-consuming. And I mean, a huge part of my story is my husband and I separated. We got back together during COVID and Business didn’t start it, but it definitely exacerbated our problems because yeah, there’s a lot of tension that can go on if you’re not prioritizing it. So love that you just mentioned that and it’s like a team effort too. That’s amazing. Yeah.

Holly Haynes:

Um, it’s a family effort really at this point.

Meg Yelaney:

So truly, truly. Um, so the Anti-Social School, I remember when you and I started to chat and I think it was like a collab that I had put out and you replied and I said, oh yes, let’s, and you were like, twin mom. I’m like, wait, this is amazing.

Holly Haynes:

You’re already my favorite person.

Meg Yelaney:

And then when you said your, the name of your program and what you do, I was like, wait, this one, I need you to speak at my mastermind, but two, you have to come on the podcast. And it’s just something that, again, I think a lot of people are realizing— not that they’re not going to do social, don’t stop doing social, it’s great, it’s a good business card, like there’s so much there. I mean, I’ve built pretty much a whole business there, so I’m very grateful for it. We’re not gonna shit on it right now. And it can be very exhausting and draining. And I guess like I don’t know if this is dramatic of me to say, but dangerous to only rely on it, you know?

Holly Haynes:

Yeah.

Meg Yelaney:

When there’s just so much out of your control. So I’m curious, what, like, where did you get the name for that? What made you realize, yeah, I really want this to be my thing? And how long has it really been your thing?

Holly Haynes:

Yeah, well, it’s actually been my thing from the beginning, but I’ll, I’ll tell you two stories. So the first story is because I did work in corporate, I had to be really careful about what I shared and how I shared it. Because I couldn’t compete with my— the company that was paying my salary. But also, I didn’t want them to be like, why is she working during the day when she should be like working for us? You know what I mean? Yeah. So I had to be like very, very cautious. But also, it was, you know, the pandemic. Our, our girls were in kindergarten, which doing kindergarten from home when you weren’t trained or had any, you know, background in that was not the easiest. And then I was working from home for a company that like didn’t know how to work from home. So there were a lot of things that were happening where I didn’t have time to be on social. And at the time it was like, you know, post 17 times a day on Facebook and follow up with 100 people on Instagram. And I would try to do it and I was like, I cannot— like, this is not sustainable. Like, this is— I have like an hour a day to work my business. This is not working. So it kind of came out of necessity. But the other piece of that is, is I did at the beginning work really hard to build up an account on Instagram, and if you go look at my podcast account, it’s much higher than my current account. And it got taken down, like it disappeared, and it disappeared for like 6 months, like it was just gone. So I had like 15,000 followers just gone, like completely gone. And I was like, okay, this is a sign that I need to start talking about the things that I’m doing behind the scenes that are different than maybe what other people are sharing. Now the account did come back But I decided that I was going to start a new account because I wanted to show like, hey, like right now social media for us is like the sidecar. I like to say it’s like the second act. It’s like plan B. If I have time to do it, it’s great. If I don’t, it doesn’t matter. Like it’s not like the driver of our business. And so I sort of went into, I’m going to set up a business model where again, I’m, I’m a super creative person. I love Canva. I actually enjoy making reels. Sometimes if they don’t take hours. But like, yeah, that’s not the biggest return on investment for me when I look at like our numbers and where our clients come from. And so I just started being very open about that and like sort of why I created the model that I did, and then sharing behind the scenes of like, okay, well, what does that actually look like?

Meg Yelaney:

Oh, I love this. Okay, so take us through your framework for the anti-social. Yeah, when you— because when I hear that Um, again, love this name. When I hear that, like, I think of a lot of different things with networking, collaboration, strategic partnerships. Um, and I’m sure there’s so much more to it. So yeah, take us through your process.

Holly Haynes:

Yeah, well, it’s called Ditch the Social Drama, which is my favorite because to me, social feels fun when there’s not drama attached to it, right? Yeah. And I will say the other thing, and that’s probably more personal, is my girls are 12 now and social media is a big thing with teenagers, and I feel like I wanna be a role model in that space and like figure out a very healthy way to have it be incorporated into our lives. Um, so for me, what that looks like is I always like to say you need to have a home base and the home base has to be email. We’re big fans of email. We could talk about email for a really long time, but it also has to be something else. So, and this is not Instagram or Facebook, so it could be blogging, it could be podcasting, Um, it could be, I have seen recently like Substack or like, um, Kit has like, you know, the paid newsletters now. It doesn’t have to be paid, but like a newsletter that you’re like known for. We want something that like is you and is your personality and is like a home base outside of social media. So, and it’s different for everyone. It’s not like a one-size-fits-all model. So I would always say like, if you hate talking. It’s not podcasting. If you love talking, maybe it is podcasting or private podcasting. If you love writing, maybe it’s blogging, but like pick something that’s not social media that you can pair with email. And then, you know, social media is like the, the side piece if you want to repurpose it into that. So we start with that. And I usually like to just pick one because I want you to go kind of like all in. So for us, we went all in into podcasting. And this year we’re like going all in again. And so like, I’ll go all in on one thing and then I’ll be like, okay, well now I’m going to go all into blogging and then I’m going to go all in, but I don’t like to do more than one at a time. So we went like all in with podcasting as an example. And it’s very long form, which I’m sure you talk about. So it’s the kind of content where you can repurpose into multiple different things. So I think right now our podcast goes to like. 17 different places. Like it’s a very robust strategy where we’re planning out the topics. They’re like matching what our family goals are, what our quarterly goals are, what our business goals are. And then we’re repurposing them into different pieces and parts. And the repurposing is also very strategic. And I think now it’s really fun because you can use like AI and ChatGPT and things like that. But I think the piece. That is important there is like, I say 17 different pieces of content, but I’ve worked really hard that they’re all custom. So I don’t think you want to repurpose where everything is the same on every single platform kind of thing.

Meg Yelaney:

Yeah.

Holly Haynes:

So we have a home base. We have a really great piece of long-form content and a strategy there. We have a repurposing strategy. And then I like to layer in what I call the human factor. Um, and I think this year is the human factor is like really, really key. I think people are tired of seeing, you know, the 17 different pieces of repurposing content that look exactly the same. They want to see something different and they, you need to stand out as something different. And so something that I’m leaning into this is very specific SEO-friendly blogs that are maybe a little more personal than you would see on my email list. Or that you would see, um, like on our Instagram stories or something like that. Um, or micro partnerships. So micro partnerships is, I think it’s like my new favorite term, but like really leaning in. Like I would call us like a micro partnership. So yes, we’re doing a podcast interview, but we’re also talking about like when each other’s launches are, what topics make the most sense to our audience, how can we like combine our audiences in a really strategic way with like dates and times and how is this going to benefit you instead of being like, let’s just do a lead magnet swap, which are great. I love them. But like, how can you lean in a little bit further? And so that’s sort of like the framework as a whole. But I think the most important step is to find that home base that works for you and that you can be really, really consistent with.

Meg Yelaney:

I love this because it’s not just like, I think sometimes when people think social, they might lump in podcasting or blogging and things like that. Mm-hmm. But like you said, that’s long form, that’s SEO based. Would you count YouTube as well in there as like one of those?

Holly Haynes:

That’s a good question. I think Pinterest and YouTube, I have them in our antisocial strategy as options because they can be scheduled. So to me, anytime that’s like not me picking up my phone feels good. Like anytime that I can schedule something and I don’t have to worry about it, like that feels like a great antisocial strategy. And I always say antisocial is actually very social. Like it’s very human. Um, but I think YouTube is, is having a moment. Like YouTube for us right now is one of our like top producers, but it’s all repurposed. Like it’s all coming from podcasting. So I’m not having to create different kinds of content. My captions might be a little bit different, but it’s really fun when you can like think of the engine that can drive. People to you in a way where you’re not having to pick up your phone and worrying, like, if people are liking your post.

Meg Yelaney:

How long did it take you? Because I’m sure when people hear the repurposing strategy, they’re like, oh my gosh, that’s amazing, I need that, right? How long did it take you to create yours? Because I know everyone repurposes differently, and like you said, and I’m so glad you said this, is like, you need to repurpose for the platform. It can’t just be, um, a copy-paste for every single, you know, um, it’s not gonna look the same, it’s not gonna perform the same. So how long did it take you to develop that? Cause I know that’s not easy in the beginning.

Holly Haynes:

It’s interesting cause I feel like at the beginning, like I’m a big fan of doing everything yourself at least once and then being like, I can’t, this is not my thing.

Meg Yelaney:

Yeah.

Holly Haynes:

So our, our, my very first hire was a VA and her whole sole purpose was to repurpose because I was like, if I only have an hour to do this podcast interview, but I know that the content is so good because I spent so much time and if you don’t have a podcast, You know, whatever the long-form content is.

Meg Yelaney:

Yeah.

Holly Haynes:

And I have somebody that could spend like 3 hours a week, like we’re not talking tons of hours, and they can strategically take that and turn it into different pieces and parts. And I give them very specific instructions, like that’s gonna save me so much time. And so I outsourced that first. Um, and even to this day, like she’s still on my team, which is amazing. 6 years later. Oh wow. And the strategy always changes, right? Like we’re like, oh, YouTube’s doing really well. Like let’s try this or let’s try this. But it’s always very dialed in to like, where, where is our audience hanging out? And then looking at metrics and saying, like, we look at them every single month of like, okay, well, where did our last clients come from? That’s probably the best question you could ask yourself. Where did our last clients come from? And like, how do we do that more?

Meg Yelaney:

Um, after we launch, I always do a debrief for that reason. It’s like, where, where are people coming from? Yeah, exactly.

Holly Haynes:

Yeah. So I mean, to answer your, probably like a year. I mean, it takes a minute. It definitely takes a minute. And I think the thing about the antisocial strategy is it’s not a quick win. It’s not like, this is a long-term, this is going to be in place. We have the same repurposing. Obviously we’re tweaking with like different platforms that come in. Strategy in place that we did in 2020 that we do now. We’re shifting it based on like what’s working and what’s not working. But it like is very long-term.

Meg Yelaney:

Yeah, I love that. And that’s where, I mean, so many people who I know are listening to this tend to get into this relationship with specifically Instagram. TikTok’s lumped in there, but more so Instagram, where Instagram literally becomes their business. And I know people are right now cringing cuz they’re like, don’t call me out. But I’m lumping myself in this camp too. I have definitely had those moments where I’m like, ‘Oh, the stupid algorithm is sucking,’ and just complaining, complaining, and really going, ‘Okay, is that— how much is this affecting my sales? Is this the only thing that I am really doing?’ Right? And for me, we have the podcast, we have the email, we have other things, so it’s not. But there was a moment like around 2020 probably where it was, and that’s again, we were saying, you know, at the beginning, like kind of a dangerous state to be in because one platform should not be your whole business. It’s just like having one stream of revenue sometimes can be dangerous if it goes away. I experienced that in network marketing. They cut our income in half because it went from product-based to digital. And I was like, oh, I’m experiencing what it feels like to like have nothing else. I need to do something about this. And that’s the same kind of thing. So if you’re listening right now and you’re like, Instagram truly feels like it’s my business. I have been telling myself I need to do a podcast or telling myself I need to do a blog or telling myself I need to start YouTube. I think this is your sign that sure, is it gonna take some more time?

Holly Haynes:

Yes.

Meg Yelaney:

To build. But this is, should 100% be a priority, is building something that’s search-based too. I’m curious your thoughts on that specifically, like having a search-based engine.

Holly Haynes:

Yeah, I mean, I’m obsessed with search-based. I feel like we could have a whole nother episode on this, but I do. I think you can pick one and it, it will not take up a ton more time. Like I’m a huge like time management fanatic. Like I don’t have a lot of extra time, but I think you can pick one channel and go pretty deep with it without it being like, you know, tens of hundreds of hours that you’re spending on. Um, I do think search-based, like if anyone comes to me and they’re like, I don’t know what to do, I would be like, take your Instagram posts and turn them into a blog. There’s so many easy ways that you can do that and that immediately puts it on your website. It makes it search-based forever. When you come back to it at another time, you could do Pinterest or you could do a YouTube video on it, but like you could do that this week. Like you could literally take your best performing Instagram post, turn that into like a 5,000-word plus searchable blog. And over time you’re going to get traction on that. And I do know that, you know, AI and, and all the GPTs and all the things, they reward volume content. So they’re going to look at Instagram, but they’re also looking across all platforms, YouTube, SEO, website, podcast, right? And the more you have out there, the easier it’s going to be to recommend that. So like our podcast, we’re turning into like two different blogs. Sometimes we turn it into three different blogs. I don’t even share that I do that except when I’m talking about it. Like, it’s not like I’m sharing it to my audience. Yeah. But all these search engines behind the scenes then are like picking it up and they’re like, oh, Holly’s an expert because she’s got a lot of really high quality content out here.

Meg Yelaney:

Oh, I love that. Oh, you’re gonna be proud. We are making the podcast now into blogs this year.

Holly Haynes:

So amazing.

Meg Yelaney:

Yeah. Just hired someone to help with that. Cause I’m not doing it. I’m like, I don’t have the time.

Holly Haynes:

Yeah. I mean, there’s so many like tools that can help you now do these things. And so I think the most important thing, and it’s what we teach in Anti-Social School is like to have the map, to have the map of like, this is my home base, this is where it goes. Maybe I want it to go to like 5 other places, but for right now we’re gonna start with this place and visually be able to see like where it’s going and then who’s gonna do it. Are you doing it? Is someone from your team doing it? Is there an app that can do it? Um, and map it out.

Meg Yelaney:

Do you have a— I remember when I started, um, I did Pinterest a long time ago in my health coaching business.

Holly Haynes:

Mm-hmm.

Meg Yelaney:

And I remember the course I took, the person who created it was actually a good friend of mine. She’s said over and over and over, give it 90 days, give it 90 days.

Holly Haynes:

Mm-hmm.

Meg Yelaney:

Like one blog a week, send, I think it was like 5 or 10 pins to it using Tailwind and other things. I’m sure it’s changed now. I don’t know how, what it is like now, but you have to give it 90 days. And lo and behold, within 90 days I started seeing, I think like 10 or so email opt-ins a day from old blogs that I did like 3, 4 months ago, 5 months ago. And I eventually shut that business down, but even a year after I had stopped doing anything, I was getting all of this traffic. It was wild. So I’m curious, do you have that kind of like timeline for people so that they can have some semblance of like, it’s like going up and down escalator in the beginning, you know, it’s gonna be really hard and feel like nothing’s happening. Do you ever give anyone something like that?

Holly Haynes:

I mean, I’m obsessed with quarters. I feel like quarters my brain can like wrap itself around and it feels doable. So I always say 90 days. I think SEO, to really truly see turnaround, is probably closer to 6 months. But if you’re thinking about like, okay, I’m just going to take my social media posts and I’m going to turn them into a blog, like start tracking it every month, like your website, um, volume and look at it over a period of 90 days. And even if you’re not seeing the traction that you want to see, you will start seeing trends. So you’ll start seeing like, well, what words are the most popular? Like what blog posts are people viewing more? Like the ones that are most popular for us right now are like 3 or 4 years old. So it just is one of those things, like it doesn’t go away. It’s going to be there for a really long time. Um, and then you can use that data to like lean into social if you want, right? Like, okay, these are the most popular search terms. So I’m going to try that on Instagram too, because I think I’m not an expert in Instagram, but I think they are using like some SEO. Key terms now. So it helps in all categories, and they are.

Meg Yelaney:

And then TikTok is like all SEO-based now, so 100%.

Holly Haynes:

I don’t even have TikTok.

Meg Yelaney:

Don’t get it. It’s such a black hole, honestly. Like, I try not to go on.

Holly Haynes:

It, so I was like, I’m not, I’m not going.

Meg Yelaney:

It’s so addicting. Like, the algorithm’s genius. So the second you’re on, you’re like, oh my gosh, I can’t stop watching. So don’t do it.

Holly Haynes:

Don’t go down the black hole.

Meg Yelaney:

Um, I love that, but that’s, that’s amazing. So I think everyone listening just It’s one of those, I think with Instagram we get this like, um, what is it, a dopamine hit, I guess.

Holly Haynes:

Oh yeah, for sure.

Meg Yelaney:

You know, of, oh, I get something that has, you know, more views than I’m, than normal. And it feels like that equals, okay, cool, my business is working, right?

Holly Haynes:

Mm-hmm.

Meg Yelaney:

Because I’m getting these views when your website views matter just as much, if not more, because they’re actually searched something that they want help with. Whereas social, yes, some of them are search-based, but a lot of it is them happen to be scrolling and you stop their scroll, but they’re not intentionally looking for that thing. You’re interrupting their like, social, you know, this on that app. And so I think this is just a sign for everyone to start one of those. And it might not give you that dopamine hit you get right away. But I always say like, how many of those kinds of posts are you getting? Are you going viral all the time? Are you getting tons of traction? If not, what do you have to lose? It’s not actually working the way you think right away. It’s the same thing with— I notice with my clients who really are consistent on, on Instagram and TikTok and social. It’s very similar. I say you’re gonna usually have a slow growth and people need to follow you and like you, and it’s all about that nurture. Get them off, get them into your email list, same, you know, everything you’re saying. And it’s when we think, oh, one post is going to bring in all these clients, it’s like they need to get to know you and like you. It’s very rare they’re going to find, book you the next day. It happens, but it’s not, you know, the case. So it’s actually a very similar mindset. And even if you approach social the way you’re saying, I think you’re going to enjoy even social more.

Holly Haynes:

Yeah, yeah. I pressure on it. I say I have a very healthy relationship with social media. Like, it’s fun for me and I can step away when I want and I can come back when I want. But I will say, if you do want like a quicker win for an antisocial strategy, like, go down the micro partnership route. Because if you strategically find one person who has like a lookalike audience similar to you, I would argue you and I do, and they’re able to share what you’re doing and you can share what they’re doing, and you’re you’re not just doing a lead magnet swap, like, right? You’re doing your research and you’re thinking about how you can help each other. Like, you will get 10 or 15 or 20 or 50 or 100 people on your email list with one email. Like, you will. And so a lot of times I share, like, let’s track the actions because we want that. We want the dopamine hit, right? Like, that keeps us going. Like, let’s track the actions. Like, okay, how many blog posts did I write this week? Um, you know, what’s my repurposing strategy? Did I, did I check it out? How many micro partnerships do I have? Like, I try to have 3 a month. So those are the things that I track. And then when I get done, I’m like, okay, those are my wins that you don’t necessarily see online, but that’s what’s growing for us.

Meg Yelaney:

I love that. And for micro partnerships, for anyone who’s starting, um, starting those and like really wanting to get into collaborations and things like that, where do you recommend they start to find those? I think that’s like a big question that people ask is like, where do I even find those people?

Holly Haynes:

So I mean, asking around to people in your network is the obvious first step, but one of my favorite things to do is to go into— I mean, if you’re listening to this, you listen to podcasts, go look at the guests that guests have had, right? So you can go into my podcast and look at the guests that I have, and you could say like, oh, do any of these people relate? Or like, if Megan is your coach and she had somebody on the podcast and that’s somebody that you wanna talk to or your audience can relate to, you immediately have like a connection because you both know Megan. So I tend to do it that way of like, oh, I heard you on so-and-so, or I found you through XYZ. Like there’s, there’s sort of like a— or I’m a twin mom too. Oh my gosh. Like I loved your last podcast.

Meg Yelaney:

You sold me with that. I was like, oh, we’re gonna be best friends.

Holly Haynes:

The one, like I always try to find a connection point, but I’ll do the research based on people that I’m listening to or that I like. You could do it on YouTube. You can do it. I mean, you can do it on Instagram as well. Um, but that’s typically where I start. And I do find once you start doing it, they will come to you. And I say that and people like roll their eyes and they’re like, and I’m like, I honestly haven’t pitched somebody to be on my podcast in like 2 years because I feel like we’ve had so much content. Like people just pitch themselves and then that turns into conversations and then that turns into relationships. So it’s like, you know, the, what’s the pumping the water in the well? Like if you do it a little bit at the beginning, it will keep going for you.

Meg Yelaney:

I love that. I think that’s, that’s huge because while I’ve done some cold pitching, if you will, I guess, to people who I’m like, oh, I really love their podcast, I’d love to be on, um, it doesn’t usually land with anything. And when I think about it on the other end, someone who gets cold pitched constantly, I hardly ever look at those emails. I hardly ever, ever have those people on. And it’s nothing negative to them. It’s just when someone is gonna come and has that relationship, I’m 9 times outta 10 or 10 times outta 10 gonna choose them over someone random that I don’t know. You know what I mean? Um, or who doesn’t have this, a decent-sized audience that I recognize their name in some way, shape, or form. So it’s like you said, just that one little connection. And I think the key here, which a lot of people listening I know will feel this, we get nervous to ask people for things sometimes. I’m sure you’ve like had to deal.

Holly Haynes:

With this with clients. Yeah.

Meg Yelaney:

And the worst that they can say.

Holly Haynes:

Is no, like that, or just not respond, right?

Meg Yelaney:

Or not respond, right? You’re gonna live, you’re gonna be fine, like You never know. I remember pitching a really big podcast a year ago, about a year ago, and I was very nervous. And we did have that connection, right? So I felt comfortable in that we had a connection, but I was so nervous and I was like, you know, they have really big people on, probably not. And they were like, yes, I love this, this is a great pitch, this is a really good idea for the podcast, let’s go. And I wouldn’t have been able to have that opportunity if I was like just stayed in that nervousness. So it’s like What’s the worst that can happen?

Holly Haynes:

Yeah. I mean, I would also share when it comes to partnerships, like if you are good at what you do, it actually helps them quite a bit. Yeah. Because you are helping their community or you’re helping their podcast or you’re helping whatever content, um, that they’re creating. And so it is a benefit to both people if it’s a good partnership.

Meg Yelaney:

100%. It’s like, oh, Megan’s podcast or Holly’s podcast has great guests. I have to make sure I listen every single week. So 100%. Yeah. I love that. So real quick, because there’s so much we could talk about.

Holly Haynes:

I know, right?

Meg Yelaney:

It was, I’m like, We need to do part 2, 3, 4, 5. Um, just because I’m selfish and love that you’re a twin mom and you’ve, you know, been a twin mom quite much, quite longer than me. So this is also just like, how are you doing it? I love to ask any, anyone who has a busy life, but especially moms and especially twin moms, how are you doing it? Like when it comes to scheduling, do you have any hacks with your schedule? Or like, I know you said you love time management, anything that you want to share with us that’s working for you?

Holly Haynes:

Yeah, I mean, my girls are a little bit older now. I joke that I feel like I, I do remember surviving the, like, baby years, but I feel like I blacked out.

Meg Yelaney:

I know.

Holly Haynes:

I don’t even know, like, what happened. Did this happen? I don’t know. Like, I see pictures and I’m like, I don’t remember this at all. But one thing that’s been really, really helpful, and I think I see you guys do this too, like through your stories, is like being very open about what we’re doing and why we’re doing it. And even if your kids are really little, I think you can also do this of like— I mean, there’s never a balance, right? Like, it’s always just prioritizing whatever thing you’re prioritizing at the time. But now that the girls are a little bit older, like, I will share with them like, hey, this is why my schedule is the way that it is. And we actually have a calendar downstairs where we’ll write like, this is what’s going on for the week. And hey, you’ve got gymnastics tonight, so you need to do this by this time. And so we’re trying to create this environment where they’re— I think they’re lucky that both parents are at home, but also like they’re seeing us work. And so it doesn’t mean that when they’re home I’m not working, but we’re trying to, you know, navigate around like, hey, if mom’s doing this, then you need to find something to do for a minute. It doesn’t mean that I’m doing that all the time, but being a little more open about like why we’re doing things and, and how things are working, I think has been really cool as they’ve gotten a little bit older. But I mean, they’ve seen me podcast since they were like, what, 4? So they’re used to it a little bit, I think.

Meg Yelaney:

Um, yeah, that’s pretty cool.

Holly Haynes:

But yeah, it’s kind of fun to just like incorporate them instead of like trying to keep it separate.

Meg Yelaney:

Yeah, I love that. And that’s kind of, I mean, goes with relationships too. I remember a big question people ask like me and my husband is just the communication aspect. How do you kind of not get resentful of one another if you have a busy season? He’s an entrepreneur too. And I’m like, it’s all about communication. Why am I doing this? Like, he knows I’m in a push period the last couple weeks for this launch, and then things die down for a while, you know. And right before that was vacation for.

Holly Haynes:

2 weeks for the holidays.

Meg Yelaney:

So it’s like, we talk about how, hey, this is what this week’s gonna do for us financially in the long term. Like, this is a really important couple weeks for this reason. And it’s just about explaining that. I think sometimes we expect people to just say, oh, I’m working, just leave me alone, you know? And yeah, I definitely did that in the beginning too. Yeah, I realized, oh, you— he has to understand what we’re doing with this. And now he totally gets it and he’s like excited and all that jazz. But it’s all about communication. Just like, people want to know that they’re not feeling like, like not thought of or neglected or, you know, anything. Then if they can have that, oh, I see the purpose of the time you’re spending, it’s just received so much better. So yeah, yeah, totally.

Holly Haynes:

Yeah, you can also put them to work too when they get older. So true.

Meg Yelaney:

I can’t wait for that. Oh my gosh. The second they can be an employee, we’re doing that.

Holly Haynes:

Yeah. I love it. That’s amazing.

Meg Yelaney:

Well, you’re incredible, Holly. Like I said, we could talk for hours and definitely have to do a round 2. So I’m really, really pumped just to be connected and have everyone else connected to you. So where is the best place? I know you have this awesome workshop and private podcast. Tell us a little bit about that and I’ll make sure I put the link in the show notes.

Holly Haynes:

Yeah. So here’s a tip from our antisocial strategy. When you’re speaking, give people one place to go. Don’t give them 17 different places. Mm-hmm. Because if you’re driving, you’re not gonna remember it. Um, so we made it really easy. Just go to hollymariehaines.com/workshop, or you can check the link in the show notes. Um, and it’s actually the framework that we talked about today, the antisocial framework, but it goes through it in a little bit more detail and it helps you pick out like your one path. That you want to go down and it talks about our repurposing strategy. So you can, you can use that to put together your own framework. Um, and then maybe you could take a break from social if you want, or you could post more and just feel better about doing it because you have a system in the background.

Meg Yelaney:

I love that. Amazing. We’ll put that link in the show notes. It’s such a good tip about the one, one CTA. I love it. Yeah. I’ll see people go send here and then here and then here and then I’m like, oh my gosh, they’re so confused. They’re lost. That’s such a good point. Well, thank you so, so much. This is amazing. We’ll put everything down below. Definitely. Also, I know you said not to give a double, but they’re listening to a podcast. So if you are already listening to a podcast and you want to go over, go to Crush the Rush Podcast, subscribe quickly there, um, and definitely binge, binge listen to a lot of Holly’s episodes because they’re incredible. So yay! Thank you, Holly, for being on the podcast.

Holly Haynes:

Thank you so much.

Meg Yelaney:

So fabulous. Awesome, guys. All right, I’ll see you in the next one.