When the Offer Has to Die to Save the Business

Megan Yelaney:

Welcome back to business. Not as usual. I’m so excited to have a peer of mine who I’ve actually gotten to known over the last few months, Laura Schoenfeld. Laura, I am so, so pumped to have you on the podcast. I did your nice intro beforehand, so I want to dive right in and get to the meat of something that I feel like I dabble talking about. But I haven’t really dedicated like a hardcore focused episode to this topic, which is building your business truly around who you are now, who you’ve evolved to be. And when I thought about who I’d want to interview about this topic, you 100% came to mind because of our conversations and how you really are rebuilding your business to match who you are now, not who you used to be. And so I won’t share too much

Laura Schoenfeld:

because I want you to get into

Megan Yelaney:

it, but share a little bit about

Laura Schoenfeld:

kind of what got you started in

Megan Yelaney:

business and then we can talk about your transition lately.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Yeah, well, I laugh because technically I’ve been doing either business or behind the scenes for somebody else’s business since 2012, so 14 years. So it’s always like, okay, how much of the story do I tell? How much is relevant? I got into online business because I actually got hired to do content marketing and like program building, program design for somebody that was running a. I think ended up being a multi seven figure health business when I was in grad school. So honestly most of what I learned was just from doing it as a team member, which I honestly, I look back at that and I think that’s so lucky that I got to have that experience because so many people have to learn it and also try to figure out how to get paid versus, I mean I was getting paid like $15 an hour, but it was still getting paid to actually learn how to do stuff, which was really cool. So it was like, you know, blog curation and email marketing and program launches and all this stuff that back then there was nowhere to learn that you just kind of had to learn it by doing it and figure it out as you go. So Fast forward to 2014 was when I started my business. I graduated my school as a dietitian and could start taking clients. And because I had been creating content and kind of like being Internet present for a couple of years before that I had a wait list of people that already wanted to work with me, which was again very fortunate, very unusual.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Um, I ended up spending about seven total years running a multi six figure nutrition business. I, I guess I like tried A lot of different things. It was again a fun time where you could kind of mess around and it wasn’t that serious and it was like niche who, right? Like you just show up and you, you put yourself out there and you’re the only one doing it. So people get, you know, you get clients. But over time I started to get more and more focused on a particular niche and I was launching programs, I was, you know, doing kind of the bigger promotional strategies. And then 2020 hit and everybody, all my friends, all my peers were like, oh my gosh, I need to start an online business because I can’t do my in person anymore. Or they, you know, they, they got fired from their jobs or whatever, right? Like everyone was like, suddenly we need to move into the online space. I had already been there for seven years at that point, so I was like, I can help.

Laura Schoenfeld:

And it was very much just a sure, I’ll launch a program I betaed at that time. My program was called the Nutrition Business Accelerator. Had my first six figure launch, was very exciting and ended up running that program up until January of this year. So that was my longest running program. Had served over 400 clients within that one program. Have done over, I think two and a half million dollars from that program. And in January I decided to close it down. So I know we’re going to talk about why, which was a really big decision that I can get into whatever details, like I’m an open book.

Laura Schoenfeld:

My audience has already heard a lot of this because I’m just like, we’re just going there. But basically I’d run this program for almost six years and got to a place where it just didn’t match who I am now. The business owner that I am, the experiences that I have, I’ve since had children since starting that program, so I have two kids under the age of four right now. So becoming a mom, you know, investing in masterminds, like doing a lot of business growth, mindset growth, you know, skillset growth. In the last six plus years I got to a place where I was like, this doesn’t really actually match where my zone of genius is. And I don’t have the bandwidth as a mom of two littles to have like 18 different offers running at the same time, right. So I had, I had really scaled down as far as the focus was concerned to that audience. And it was working, quote, air quote like we were doing 30 to 50k months on that offer.

Laura Schoenfeld:

We had a whole sales system set up Evergreen, like you know, sales funnel $6,000 program, like everything on paper, that sounds awesome. And I just realized, like, if I’m going to keep growing this business, if I’m going to look at the next, know 5 to 10 years of online business ownership, of coaching, of mentoring, of doing the work that I’m doing, I have to be talking about something that I’m actually excited about. And the way I had structured this program and the type of stuff I had put into it and the way I had overbuilt it, and I’m happy to give more details about that. I had overbuilt it to a point where I was on the hook by my own doing for talking about a lot of things that I didn’t really want to be talking about anymore. And I really didn’t see any other way to change that than to just like hit the reset button. So decided, okay, this program has kind of, for me, run its course. It didn’t mean it’s run its course for other people. We still have people in it.

Laura Schoenfeld:

We’re actually winding it down in through August this year. But for me, it had kind of like run the course as far as me wanting to be actively selling and marketing to it and making that my public messaging, making what I’m known for, and really just taking this year to redesign everything from the current version of me that exists and kind of where I see myself going. Because again, this program ran for six years. I’m like, where do I want the next five, six plus years to go, really? Making decisions from that and creating something that I can bring that full energy to. Not that I don’t bring my full energy to my clients, but I really think about the sales and marketing piece and bringing my full self, my full energy to that part of it so that I can actually get lit up by what I’m talking about. You know, interviews like this. Like things where the version that exists now is actually being fully expressed. So that’s kind of a bigger nutshell maybe than I’d planned.

Laura Schoenfeld:

But again, we’re trying to cover 14 years of business ownership. So, yeah, I’m happy to go deeper on any of those things that I brought up.

Megan Yelaney:

Oh my gosh, this is so great. I wrote down a ton of notes while you were talking. So I was like, wait, I don’t want to forget to ask you these things. It’s so validating hearing you talk about

Laura Schoenfeld:

this too, because I feel like we’ve

Megan Yelaney:

had such a similar journey. Not the exact same type of program, but so much overlap, which again, it’s just, I think Sometimes you feel like you’re on this island when you’re having these, like, identity crisis in your business, or like, I’m going to shut it down. And it’s obvious that it’s. It’s actually way more common than we realize. And I actually think as you were, as you were talking, I was like, wait, this is probably a huge reason why so many people have quit their business. And you and I were briefly talking about this before we started recording. I just seen a real influx of people who had successful businesses completely quit, shut it down, but not like you or myself did, to restart with a new program in a new direction, but just, like, it’s too hard. I’m done.

Megan Yelaney:

And as you were talking, I was just like, light bulb. It’s because they’re not rebuilding or they’re not operating from who they are now, and they think, well, this worked, and I hate it. And even though it’s kind of working, I don’t want to do it. And what you’re giving people permission just by sharing that story is, like, you get to change. That’s. Entrepreneurship is literally constantly evolving. Like you said, in five years, you’ll probably do something different. You’ll probably evolve.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Same here.

Megan Yelaney:

You know, every five, I say, like, I get the four year itch. I notice, not that I change anything at year four, but, like, I start to go, hmm, what am I doing? What am I doing that I like, what am I doing that I don’t like? Like you said, zone of genius versus, like, your zone of excellence. So there’s just so much in there that I want to talk to. But just thank you, I think first, for giving people that, like, permission to pivot. Right? It’s. You don’t have to shut it down. You get to reinvent yourself. And I think we make it so dramatic.

Megan Yelaney:

Like, oh, my gosh, it’s not working the way I want it to. And speaking from experience, being dramatic with it sometimes too, is. It doesn’t have to be. It’s like, you’ve evolved, great, let’s evolve your business. And now you get to wake up and actually love what you’re talking about. And you might have loved your clients, but like you said, you kind of got yourself into this box of, I don’t love what I’m talking about anymore, and I can’t. That’s not why we got into entrepreneurship. So just thank you first of all, for sharing that, because I think it’s.

Megan Yelaney:

It’s just nice, really nice. Permission for everyone else. So first question, so many first One that I’m really curious about is what were kind of those signs that you knew it didn’t match you anymore. Does that make sense?

Laura Schoenfeld:

Yeah. So part of what I didn’t talk about is the fact that when I got pregnant with my first daughter, I was running three different group programs simultaneously. So I had the NBA program, which is the one I just shut down in January. I also had a like next level for those graduates to come up to and keep getting support. And then I had a mastermind that I was running which to be fair, a lot of the decisions that I made were just seeing what other people were doing and just being like, I guess that’s the model. There’s nothing wrong with it. You know, I think we were doing like somewhere between 5 and $600,000 with just part time team members and you know, me working, I mean full time. In heavy air quotes, I had a very flexible schedule when I got pregnant.

Laura Schoenfeld:

I kind of had this like, I don’t think this is a pace I can keep up being pregnant and, or you know, I have no idea what life is going to be like. So decided to pull the mastermind because that was the highest energy slash lowest revenue driver of the business and highest energy and cost associated at that time because we had live events. Like I was also doing a lot of one on one support. And so I ended up taking that offer out. And then I kept running the two group programs up until basically I got pregnant with my second daughter. And when you’re pregnant with a toddler running around, it’s like, oh, I really do not have bandwidth to be like hand holding people micromanaging things. And unfortunately I just have a bad habit of creating programs that I’m over delivering in. And you know, that’s part of my journey is to learn how to not constantly be over delivering.

Laura Schoenfeld:

But I had these two group programs that were running and they were both pretty time and energy intensive. And again I got to this point where I was like, I don’t think I can hold both of these programs at the same time, so one of them needs to go. And I let go of my next tier, right, Because I was like, I can just work with those people at one on one level. I don’t have to have a group program for it. So I ended up closing the second program down when I was pregnant with my second. So then I was just down to this signature program and one on one essentially. And the challenge that I ran into is basically I had whittled things down to the program that was really meant to cover the foundations of a business, which you could argue is for like a beginner, honestly. And you may have seen this with your own clients.

Laura Schoenfeld:

A lot of people who’ve been in business for a while still massively needed that help because it’s like all of the like, necessary structure of a functional business. But the challenge that I was running into is I wanted to work with people who were more advanced and the program was not attracting those people because they thought it was too beginner for them. So what did I do? I started adding more advanced curriculum to it. So I was like, let’s add more, let’s add more. Let’s do this. Let’s create a, you know, VSL funnel. Let’s add, you know, all the things that I was like, these are, this is what the more advanced people want. And I was trying to funnel everybody who wanted to work with me into this one program.

Laura Schoenfeld:

And for them it was great because they got this like massive library of everything you could probably need to know for like three years worth of running a business in one program. Yeah, for me, I got into this kind of weird situation with the coaching because it was an evergreen enrollment program where most of the time I was answering the, the first phase of the program question. So like, niche, niche, niche, niche. Like every other week, questions about niche. And I am not, I am not opposed to talking about niching. I think it’s a very important topic. It’s something that I think every business owner needs to understand. But for me, as somebody who likes to evolve as, who likes to like, keep moving forward, to keep coming back to that beginner level question over and over and over and over and over.

Laura Schoenfeld:

For years I. I was like, I do not want to talk about this anymore. Like, not at the level of, of frequency and earliness that was necessary for the people coming in. And then the other challenge I would run into is adding that more complicated, more advanced curriculum into this program. Now I’m also getting more advanced questions from people who really, a lot of them weren’t ready for that yet. And now I’m trying to like, group coach people on how to do something that they actually probably shouldn’t be doing. And then I’m like, well, that’s my fault because I put it in the program. So like, I can’t blame them for asking questions about it.

Laura Schoenfeld:

But now it’s like we’re bouncing, like ping ponging between helping somebody talk about their niche and then reviewing somebody’s sales funnel. Right? And it just became this situation where I was like, I never feel like we’re moving anywhere for me, and people come in and out of the program and like, it just felt very for me unrewarding to have that experience. For me, I, for better or worse, and obsessed with facilitating transformation. Right? So it’s almost like this. You just keep getting knocked back to the beginning and you never really get to see any full completion with people. It was literally draining, like, all my creative energy, my creative juices. And when I say creative again, I. I am the kind of person who will show up for my clients no matter what.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Like, I. None of this was about me backing out of the program. I know people have had that experience before where the coach gets bored and they just bail. That wasn’t the issue for me at all. The issue for me was when it went to go, creating my public facing top of funnel, like, I need to show up on the Internet and talk about the things that will take somebody into this program. I think it was a combination of being like, resistance to talking about the things that was gonna actually sell the program. Right. It’s like, oh, let’s talk about niche again.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Like, I really don’t want to talk about niche again. Or it was gonna be something where I was gonna have to shift everything into a more advanced person and then struggle to sell the thing. Because the thing I’m trying to sell does not look like it’s for an advanced client. Client. Right. So I was kind of in the situation where the offer was attracting newer people and the people that I wanted to work with didn’t think they needed it. So I had to be like, what do I do here? Right? I was like, I either gotta go all in on selling this thing that is really meant for an earlier stage entrepreneur. And that’s all I’m gonna talk about.

Laura Schoenfeld:

And I’m not gonna get to, like, really talk about the things that actually I’m really good at, which is helping people that are more advanced do more advanced things. Or I’m going to have to, like, do something drastic with this offer to make it more attractive to a more advanced audience. And it was just this, like, stuck in a rock and a hard place kind of situation. And I just didn’t see how I could change the direction of the offer that. That intensely to really make it work without again kind of like having to start over, which I was like, it’s going to be easier for me to just start from scratch from what I actually would sell to these more advanced people than it is to, like, turn the Titanic of this kitchen sink thing that has been growing and expanding and like, you know, tentacling out for the last six years, covering like every freaking conversation you could possibly think of about business. It just, it was like I had created this monster for myself to deliver and to sell. And I realized, like, the amount of effort it was taking me to sell at the level that I know I’m capable of. I was like, if I put all of this energy into something that was more aligned for me, this thing would explode.

Laura Schoenfeld:

So it’s a very long winded answer, but I think it’s important to think about if you want to go somewhere else. You either have to bring the offer with you or the offer has to shut down. And it’s like depending on how you’ve built your offer, it may not actually make sense to try to evolve the offer with you.

Megan Yelaney:

I love that you shared that though, in that detail, because you, like you just said, you have these two distinct, you know, paths. Change it, alter it, or you’re starting from scratch. And I think, you know, there’s. I’ve worked with clients who’ve had both situations, but I think sometimes we’re so. We have that. What’s. What’s the phrase?

Laura Schoenfeld:

The sunk cost.

Megan Yelaney:

Is that what it is? Yeah. So we’re like, oh, I’ve spent so much time on this offer.

Laura Schoenfeld:

I put.

Megan Yelaney:

Poured so much time into this. I can’t let it go because of that. And I think that’s actually keeps people back so much. I’m curious if you experienced that at all when you were like, really considering getting rid of this offer.

Laura Schoenfeld:

I did, but not in the way that you’re talking about it, because I’m, I’m very familiar with that as a concept. I actually literally just posted about it this week on Instagram. Oh, that exact. Yeah, that exact phrase. The sunk cost fallacy.

Megan Yelaney:

I love it.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Since I’m aware of that concept, I think it allowed me to cut the cord a little faster because I was like, kind of like what I just said. I knew how much time and effort and energy it was going to take to turn that Titanic. And I was like, what if I just put all of that energy into creating something that’s fresh and like the current version of my expertise, the current stuff I really want to do with my people. So I don’t think it was. I mean, again, it’s 100% relevant what you’re saying as far as that being a barrier for people. But I think it’s very much something I already knew about and I already knew to look for it and it was pretty easy for me to be like, I’m not going to just pour more time and energy into something that I do not see coming with me into the future.

Megan Yelaney:

Yeah, it’s kind of whenever I have clients do that, I always remind them of like when they left their nine to five or when they took this plunge. Anyway. It’s like you spent all these years in college. I just had a client who is in healthcare and she just left her healthcare job. That’s a lot of schooling. It’s a lot of time that she’s been building that career and now she’s like, that’s not for me anymore. It is time, you know, so it’s the same kind of concept. I’m curious if you had.

Megan Yelaney:

I get this question sometimes and because I did something very similar, shut a program down. Took a, took like a year to figure out what I really wanted to do. But was, was I nervous about shutting it down in terms of the financial repercussions? Like, what if this next thing doesn’t take off or takes time to build up? So was that present for you? Was that like, like even logistically of, okay, I have these one on ones that are going to support me while I’m rebuilding or anything like that that you’re open to sharing with? I think it’d be really helpful.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Oh yeah. I mean, I’m literally the breadwinner for my family. My husband does not have a quote unquote job. He works for me. He runs ads for some of our clients. But like, pretty much everything, including the clients he gets, is on me to be able to produce. And we have two kids. You know, we have a mortgage.

Laura Schoenfeld:

So I mean, there isn’t, there isn’t really any. I don’t know, it’s like I don’t actually have a choice. It’s kind of how I think about entrepreneurship in general for me is like, I literally don’t actually see another option. So it’s. It’s like if there’s no other option, you just figure it out. Even the money piece. Like, I don’t expect necessarily to have something bounce back immediately where we’re going from. Although to be fair, we still did over 100.

Laura Schoenfeld:

I think it was like $115,000 in sales in Q1, even with shutting that program down, which when I saw that from my accountant, I was like, oh, that was actually better than I thought.

Megan Yelaney:

Yeah, that’s amazing.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Yeah. So, like, I think for me, and to be fair, I’ve been In. I’ve been in the online space for very long time for the average person.

Megan Yelaney:

Yeah.

Laura Schoenfeld:

I feel like you get to a place where you’re just like, I’m going to figure it out. It doesn’t mean it’s not scary. It doesn’t mean it’s not like, I mean, there’s, if we’re going like full, you know, transparency, there are definitely moments right now because I’m in the middle of it. Right. Like, it’s not like we’re like, oh, we’re doing like million dollar months now. Like we’re, we’re heading in that direction, but we’re definitely not. We haven’t made up for the thing that I just shut down. Right.

Laura Schoenfeld:

So there’s definitely moments where I’m like, did I make a mistake? Like, maybe, maybe I shouldn’t have done that. But it’s one of these things where it’s like you kind of just have to trust that you can make anything work, essentially. And I think for me, having had the reps of going through multiple years of online business ownership, multiple transitions, you know, going from nutrition to business coaching, going from not a mom to a mom, like there’s never been a time where I didn’t figure it out. And that doesn’t mean that I don’t have to make difficult decisions or cut expenses or whatever. Like, we’re doing a lot of descaling right now, so I can not have so many moving parts and expenses associated with the business. But I think honestly for me, a lot of it’s just like, I know I can figure this out and there really is no other choice for me because I am unemployable. I am like dyed in the wool. Need to be an online business owner.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Like, I literally don’t know what other job I would get. My husband’s a former math teacher, so like that salary isn’t going to do anything for us. So it’s kind of one of these things where I don’t give myself any option of not making it work. And I think for a lot of people, for better or worse, they have like their exit plan. Right. It’s like, I’ll just, you know, my husband will pay our bills. And none of this is meant to be like judgmental. It’s just, it is what it is.

Megan Yelaney:

It’s your story.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Yeah. If you have an off ramp, it’s a lot harder to be committed to it because it’s like, you know, I don’t need this. Why do I need this complexity and challenge and you know, stress in my life. So I think for me, given that I personally do not see any other path for me other than figure out a way to make entrepreneurship our livelihood for the next, you know, however many decades. I think for me, it’s just like, that’s what keeps me going to make sure that I’m doing what is necessary and that I’m not just like, you know, throwing everything that I’ve done in the last 15 years in the trash because I’m like, ah, it’s harder this year. Don’t. You know, I’m tired. You know, all the things that you could potentially use as an excuse to bail on your business.

Laura Schoenfeld:

That is something that, for me, I’m like, I don’t. That’s not even an option. So I don’t let my brain go there. My brain is like, how do I figure it out? How do I figure it out? And it’s.

Megan Yelaney:

That’s.

Laura Schoenfeld:

I mean, that I feel like you have to have that mindset as an entrepreneur, otherwise, like, you’re gonna find the way out at some point.

Megan Yelaney:

Yes. Oh, my gosh. I literally want everyone to, like, pause, rewind about five minutes, six minutes, and just listen to that over and over and over again. And it’s freaking me out how, like, I know we’ve chatted before, but how similar our life is. I’m like, wait, you’re sharing my story right now? And again, it’s just sometimes I’m like, am I on this island? You know, I’m also the breadwinner in our family, and my husband does have a ticket business, but it’s not at that point where it could support our life or where we live right now. And so I did have, like, a stint where I was like, I don’t know if I actually want my business because I was, like, knee deep in postpartum. And it was hard, but I also loved it.

Laura Schoenfeld:

And I was like, I just want

Megan Yelaney:

to be a mom for like a month. I was highly considering that he started his business again, which that was meant to happen because he was meant to start that again. I really was. He needed that for himself as well. And I. Same, almost exact same thing. When people ask me, like, how do I just, like, keep going and do it all? I’m like, I. It’s like asking someone who fully supports their family, how do you keep showing up to your 9 to 5 job? You have to pay your bills? Like, I don’t have a choice.

Megan Yelaney:

You know, like, we could survive off of our savings for quite a while. And I’m super. So super grateful for that, but that’s because of all the work we did. So, yeah, I don’t really have a choice. And I think you just hit the nail on the head.

Laura Schoenfeld:

It’s.

Megan Yelaney:

I was literally talking to a past client this morning. We were voice noting and just catching up. We haven’t worked together in years. And she said, I, like, admire so much of what you do. And she. She said. And we were just chatting, and she’s like, I’m really. I feel so lucky that my husband fully supports us.

Megan Yelaney:

And because she’s taking time off her business because it’s hard with kids and all that jazz.

Laura Schoenfeld:

And.

Megan Yelaney:

And yes, totally, 100%. And that’s why I don’t want to say it lessens your drive, but it. It does because you don’t have to have it. And I think when you’re in the situation that we are, that’s why we’ve had the success.

Laura Schoenfeld:

That’s why we’ll continue to have success

Megan Yelaney:

even when we have to pull back and start over and rebuild. And that’s humbling in itself.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Right?

Megan Yelaney:

Like, there is no other option. So everyone listening. Even if you do have other options, you have a 9 to 5. You have a spouse that. That pays for, you know, most of your bills or a good chunk. I really urge you to try to imagine you don’t. Yeah, like, really try to imagine you don’t. Not from that pressure of, like, oh, my gosh, I have to pay my bills, but from this.

Megan Yelaney:

Like, you’re just going to figure it out. Because, like, now I think you’re probably similar. Like, we get to figure it out from outside the box, thinking we have to, where you can’t keep doing the same thing. That’s not working anymore. That worked many years ago. That does not work in today’s market. So just thank you for sharing that. I think that’s like, such a good takeaway for everyone is like, really try to treat it like this is your only option.

Megan Yelaney:

That’s. The people who make it are really the ones who are like, there’s no plan B. You know what I mean?

Laura Schoenfeld:

Yeah. I mean, I have so many things I could say. It’s kind of like, so you have twins. I have said before, I don’t know how you do it with twins, how you do anything with twins. Just function with twins. But obviously you’re figuring it out. Right? And so there’s no part of you that’s like, I don’t know, maybe I’ll, like, send one off. It’d Be easier to just have one, right? You’re not like, keep one.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Yeah. You’re not weighing your options here. And so it’s really interesting, the word decide. Actually, the root in there is side, which means to kill. So the, the concept of deciding means you’re cutting, like you’re killing every other option. So you don’t have to be in a situ. And to be fair, like, we’re probably not actually in a situation where we couldn’t get a job, right? It’s like, we probably could. There’s probably other options.

Laura Schoenfeld:

You know, you could move to Oklahoma. I could downsize. Like, you know, there’s different things you could do. It’s not actually the only option. We’ve just decided it’s the only option. Because also, like, we could send our kids to full time childcare. I don’t want to do that. Like, you just made the decision that there is no other option.

Laura Schoenfeld:

And that’s the concept of deciding. You kill off all the other options. Because I think when somebody keeps, well, I could do this, I could do that even with your offers, right? It’s like, well, I could do that offer. I could do this one. All of that, like, considering other options takes so much time and energy and focus versus just saying, no, this is what we’re doing, we’re going. And that’s where I think a lot of people, like, it’s not that they necessarily quit, although I think there’s more people quitting now because it’s not like shooting fish in a barrel like it was a few years ago to run an online business. But it’s like just the amount of wasted time and energy and brain power when you aren’t deciding is so costly for your business. And that’s where for me, I made the decision.

Laura Schoenfeld:

I’m like, we’re done at the end of January with this program. I don’t have like another thing that’s waiting for me necessarily on the other side of that. But if I had kept holding onto that, I would have never figured it out. I would have never made the new thing. Right. And so that ability to make those decisions and just like literally be like, this is what I’m doing is I think, something that we have to learn how to do. And depending on your situation, people like us, we don’t have as attractive options. Like, I’m just gonna, you know, let my husband pay all the bills and all of that stuff.

Laura Schoenfeld:

So, yes, that is a very long way of saying being able to make a decision and cut off all alternatives is actually Something that can really make or break business success. Yeah.

Megan Yelaney:

100. Oh, I just. I love this conversation so much because I think it’s. It’s something that people. I don’t know. I don’t see people talking about it as frankly, you know, as honestly and transparently. So. I just appreciate you, and I’m like, this has all been going on in my head, so I’m really glad that we’re having this even selfishly for me right now.

Megan Yelaney:

And I hope you’re not alone.

Laura Schoenfeld:

You might live on an island, but you’re not on an island.

Megan Yelaney:

I swear. I always say, like, most of the guests that I end up having, I’m like, this was a selfish episode. No, I love.

Laura Schoenfeld:

I love selfish episodes. When I get somebody on. Yeah, no, when I get somebody on that, I’m like, I’m just gonna pick your brain for half an hour to an hour. Like, those are the best episodes.

Megan Yelaney:

I just wanted to chance to chat and be like, oh, we’re working, so I know.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Right?

Megan Yelaney:

Validate all my feelings. So thank you so much. Something you said that I want to just, like, pinpoint. You were like, I overbuilt my program. And this is something I’ve so done as well. Just everything but the kitchen sink is in this program. And one, obviously it’s.

Laura Schoenfeld:

It’s.

Megan Yelaney:

Well, maybe not obviously, but to everyone listening, it dilutes, like, the. The lifetime value of your client. Like, you’re literally making less money because you’re putting everything in one program, and it overwhelms people so that they can’t even imagine doing a continuation because they haven’t figured out everything in there. So I know you probably help people through this. What’s your, like, biggest tips or framework or, like, how do people, if they know, oh, gosh, I think I’ve done that. How do they either fix that or start over or start, like, tweaking things, if that makes sense.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Yeah. So my. The thing that I overbuilt was curriculum, and I made the really smart decision of making it Lifetime access curriculum, so. Which originally was meant to be a smaller amount of curriculum. And then I had other things they could come into, but I kind of like reverse engineered into a very, you know, much more, much more difficult than it needed to be. Because like you were saying, if that’s the main thing they can buy from me and there’s nowhere else for them to go, and they get lifetime access, and it’s like, wow, I have so much I can still go through. Why would I pay for more? Like, what was I thinking? You know, so. So even though we were doing financially well, as far as the sales were concerned, it’s like, we all know that selling to somebody who’s already worked with you is way easier than selling to a new customer.

Laura Schoenfeld:

So I’d basically created this business where I had to be getting new customers all the time, and I knew how to do it and the systems I had built were doing it. But it was like, that’s where I was talking before about the amount of energy it was taking to not only sell and then get. Like, the people I really wanted to work with were like, I think I’ve already done this before. I was like, I want to put this. There’s so much in here you probably haven’t done. And then delivering it was this whole other energetic beast. But the overbuilt part, I think, really, I mean, for me at least, I don’t think people do this because they are selfish or like, there’s really no other reason to overbuild a program other than you want your clients to be successful and you want to give them what they want because, like, why else would you do that? I feel like a lot of the people who, you know, I’m sure you have had experiences where people have come to you like, wow, this program is so much better than anything I’ve ever bought because they’ve been in programs where it was like very under built, very under delivered, right? So as much as I love creating that experience for people, there’s a sweet spot between like over delivering and surprising delighting people and fire hosing and like, you know, this is the only curriculum you’ll need for five years, don’t pay me again for five years kind of thing. So, you know, I don’t know if there’s like a perfect way to do it.

Laura Schoenfeld:

In some ways, I think the nice thing about being in the AI, the AI era right now is I don’t feel like there needs to be as much information in a program to make it helpful. And I actually think less for most people is better. So if you can just shift your mindset to thinking about. I always, I mean, I didn’t invent this term, but the concept of the minimum viable product, like, what’s the least amount you need to give somebody for them to get the result that they came into the program wanting? That’s one, right? Because if you have that mindset of like, I just need to give them more and more and more to create value, you’re. You’re going to over Deliver overbuild. Right? So if you have the mindset of like, actually less is better and the less I give them, the better this program is going to be. That can really help you cut it down to what’s needing to be in there. The second thing that I don’t think a lot of people think about, and I had to kind of learn this the hard way, is if you do not have very specific boundaries around who comes into the program and why they’re coming into the program and what they’re expecting to get from the program, you are probably going to overbuild whether you wanted to or not.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Because if you’re like, anyone can come in, like, I can help anybody. I mean, I say anybody even within your niche, Right? Like, I was still focusing on health experts at that time. Like, I’m not specifically focused there right now, but I was like health experts, you know, coaches, that kind of thing. Running an online business. Like, okay, that’s specific technically, but. And I even, I haven’t like boiled it down to like high ticket programs. Right. But if it’s like, I’m going to help you build your program and I’m going to help you learn how to sell it and I’m going to help you create the content for it and then I’m going to help you scale it with a system that’s actually built to scale.

Laura Schoenfeld:

It’s like all the different things that I’m offering to help them with, they that’s obviously like they’re gonna expect to receive that if that was what my promise was on the front end. Right. So promising too much because you’re like, well, if I promise more, they’ll buy. And then also not having clear guidelines around who it’s actually for because again, kind of going back to my idea of like, well, I could serve beginners, I could serve more advanced people. I don’t want to have multiple programs. Let’s just make this catch all, anyone could benefit from it kind of program. I had to add more stuff because I had to be selling to people that needed more. I had to be selling to people that needed less.

Laura Schoenfeld:

And so having that clarity of who it’s for and what the purpose of it and what the result is. I had started with that when I first launched the business or first launched the program back in 2020, but it just kind of morphed into this huge catch all and that was when it started getting really hard to sell and deliver.

Megan Yelaney:

Yeah, that makes sense. And that’s like, I think it’s such A easy slippery slope to get into. Because like you said, you people come into programs having, if they’ve been. If you aren’t working with a very, very beginner, having invested in things before and being disappointed. That’s a huge reason people say no. Or you have an objection you have to overcome is like, I didn’t get what I paid for or it was very lackluster. And so it also feels, I just had this the other day. It feels really good.

Megan Yelaney:

You get that dopamine hit when someone’s like, oh my gosh, this is so good. There’s so much in here. And sometimes that’s good. Like you said, if it’s matching where they are and sometimes it actually really can hurt their growth and obviously your lifetime value. But there’s so much that they almost get like paralyzed and they can’t continue

Laura Schoenfeld:

well or, or there’s so much that they are in this like learning mode all the time. Yes. Not even that they’re paralyzed. It’s like, I have more to learn. I have more to learn. I have more to learn then because I work with a lot of like the type A, like straight A student kind of person.

Megan Yelaney:

Yeah.

Laura Schoenfeld:

They will spend all their time learning and if there’s just endless amounts of stuff that they could be learning, it feels very productive. But it’s not actually helping them get the result that they want.

Megan Yelaney:

Yes, yes, yes, yes. 100% like just wanting to be you. Do you feel like, oh, I’m actually working my business. And then we look, what are your money making activities? Watching a module is not a money making activity.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Right.

Megan Yelaney:

It’ll help your money making activities, but it’s not actually the doing. So I think that’s just like a nice cautionary tale, I guess, if you will, to everyone listening, like when you’re so tempted, ask yourself what is that minimum viable? What are the core pieces that are essential to get them the result that’s promised for the program. And if you feel like the promise like you were saying, you added that scale, that could be a whole separate. So chop it down. And then if they want to continue and that’s something like I’ve had to really trained myself on this year, especially with I have a continuation program after mine. And there’s so many moments where people will ask for certain things and I’m like, you know, we actually do that in continuation. And the times I’ve done it and have said it confidently, I’m like so proud of myself because there’s so much of me that wants to just Go, oh, yeah, I’ll just get this and this and this and this and this and this. And occasionally I will throw in a bonus training.

Megan Yelaney:

But I know that it’s within the context of what they need, you know, but man, it took a long time to stop doing exactly that.

Laura Schoenfeld:

And all of a sudden.

Megan Yelaney:

And it’s a beast.

Laura Schoenfeld:

You know what sucks is when a client says, like, I’ve had this happen very recently where they’re like, oh my gosh, this is like the best program I’ve ever done. What else do you have for me? And I’m like, you guys can’t see me. I’m shrugging. I’m like, I literally don’t have anything else. And it’s like, it’s the worst feeling because you’re like, I love working with this person. They’re getting great results. They’re so happy. And then they just disappear because it’s like, well, where else am I supposed to go, right? It’s like, they don’t have anywhere else to go.

Laura Schoenfeld:

And so that was something that again, I had a. You guys can all just like, take my lessons. This is my. I’m a six line as a human design. So, like, my, my way of teaching is I do it and then I tell you not to do what I did because why. Here’s why. It sucked. So, yeah, so it’s one of these, like, yeah, it feels really, really nice for somebody to talk about how amazing the program is, but then when there’s nowhere else for them to go, they actually want to stay with you, they want to keep investing.

Laura Schoenfeld:

And it’s like, sucks to be like, actually, I don’t have anything for you. So I’m actually right now in that exact decision making process because I had originally thought I wasn’t going to launch another program this year, but we’re already getting kind of those, like, what’s next for me? What’s next for me? I was like, man, I should probably have something next for these people. So we’re figuring that out.

Megan Yelaney:

I love it. Oh my gosh. There’s. We could literally talk for so long. I would love to have you back in a few months to see, like, how’s the program going? How’s everything? Like, we’re like in the middle of your case study, which is so cool. And I appreciate you so much for this because I’m doing this rebuild series and I’m in the middle of it and it’s so scary to share while

Laura Schoenfeld:

you’re doing something you’re not.

Megan Yelaney:

Like, this was Tried and true. Even when you’ve done it kind of in the past, it’s really, it’s very vulnerable to share when you’re in the muck of it. Versus like, I learned this beautiful lesson and look at all the success, right? You’re like in it. So I appreciate you so much and I would love to have you back to be like, here’s what happened this year kind of thing. Here’s what I to do and not to do from my learning lessons, you

Laura Schoenfeld:

know, here’s more lessons for, for you guys. Yeah, it’s funny because for me I’ve had multiple, multiple six figure launches. So my, my program that I shut down, I think our top Launch was like $330,000 for a single promotional window. So going from that to then starting something brand new and being like, well, clearly we’re not doing that yet. I wasn’t running ads. Like, it was just very much like, I’m just going to beta this thing, just get it out. And we had a $25,000 launch with no ads, which I’m like, okay, like that is 10% or less of what I’ve done in the past. I’m still going to celebrate that.

Laura Schoenfeld:

I’m still going to look at that as being like, hey, I just created $25,000 out of nothing. Like this thing didn’t exist. I just had an idea and I sold an idea. Right. And so I think it’s something where it’s like really easy to glamorize all the big numbers and all the like, you know, doing million dollar weeks or whatever. But there’s also sometimes you do have to kind of like take some steps back financially to make steps forward. And I don’t ever want somebody to think that like everybody’s trajectory is just like always grow, grow, grow, grow, grow. And there’s no kind of like, let’s scale things down to scale back up kind of thing.

Megan Yelaney:

Thank you for sharing that. Like, I really, really appreciate that because it’s it like you said. And it’s also so easy to compare ourselves to our past selves and it’s like reminder, this is new, this is different. Right? And then kind of like almost forgetting about that, the past even, it was wonderful and great, great. It’s like now you can actually really celebrate that $25,000 launch, like you said, out of nothing, you know, that’s so incredible. So. And something that like the very past version of you would be celebrating going something you love, you just made that money from and you get to really show up every day, not be exhausted, not be like, I don’t feel like talking about niche anymore and all the things that come up. You know, you actually can be lit up by the business you’re running.

Megan Yelaney:

So.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Yeah, I know, I know. I gotta. I know. We. We need to wrap up. The other big thing I didn’t even talk about this was the fact that the Evergreen model was a terrible fit for my energy. If you guys want to hear more about this, it’s on my podcast. I can give me.

Megan Yelaney:

Well, I’ll link it below. Yeah, that’s great.

Laura Schoenfeld:

But the other thing that I’m actually really excited about is getting back into a launch model and a cohort model. And so, yes, this was, you know, a beta of a new program, but it’s the start of something that now I can do seasonal sales, period, be on and off. And so it’s like, yeah, I had to take steps back financially to get there. But for me, I really love having ebbs and flows of, like, I come on, I show up, I’m like, hardcore, and then I can, like, take a break.

Megan Yelaney:

Yeah. So.

Laura Schoenfeld:

So, yeah, so that was even. Even seeing, like, okay, now what’s possible if I do start running ads, if I do start being more, you know, building the list in between launches and doing the things I know how to do. I’ve seen this trajectory before where my last program, I launched it and it was like 40K, which included some VIP upsells, and then the next launch was a hundred, and then the next launch was like 200 something. So I know I can do it. And it’s really just like giving myself permission to let it start small and not put that pressure on myself to be like, oh, I have to, like, nail it right off the gate and just like, blow it up the way the last program was when I was launching it. So making a big change in my sales mechanism, that was another reason that I made this change. And I’m like, oh, I’m so glad I did this because, yeah, that. That is literally its own episode.

Megan Yelaney:

But, oh, yeah, I love that though, that maybe that’s what will have you come back because we’re. We just started baking the program Evergreen, but I’m still doing live launching, so I feel you can join anytime. But the way I’m going to be really selling is exactly that is live launching. Because that’s just what I love. I know a lot of people like kind of crap on live launching. I love it. Like, that’s just like, how I operate too. So I’m with you on that.

Megan Yelaney:

The, like, do your thing, show up, go relax, do your behind the scenes. Yeah, I love that. That’s amazing. Well, I know you have an amazing quiz for us, so. Or for everyone. I’m going to take it as well. Can you share a little bit more about it? We’ll make sure that we partner pop it in the show notes as. As well as that episode that you mentioned and your Instagram and things like that too.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Yeah. So one of the things that I’m getting really into, which is kind of full circle. Cause I have a psych degree as my undergrad, is helping people dig into their personality in, like, lots of different ways. Just figuring out who they are, what their strengths are. Because I think I realized I was building my business off of other people’s strengths, not my own strengths. And that was what was making it a lot harder for me to get the momentum. Even though, like, I was making it work, it wasn’t ever like a natural extension of myself. It was like making it happen a lot of white knuckling things.

Laura Schoenfeld:

So the. The quiz is called the CEO Types Quiz. It’s all about identifying how you operate as a CEO. So how do you make decisions and what are you optimizing for? Because if you know what your tendencies are, first of all, you can build structure in your business that matches those tendencies. You’re not operating against your natural way of doing things. But then also you can see what the blind spots are. So you can either just be aware of them, because again, sometimes it’s just the awareness that you need to be like, oh, I’m a slower decision maker. I should probably give myself a deadline to make this decision.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Right. So just different things like that. But also you can build structure in your business to kind of like support those. Those blind spots or those weak points. For me, for example, I am what we call a decisive CEO. I’m. I move fast and I’m like, let’s get results. Let’s go.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Let’s do the thing. I still like people and I still, you know, think I’m a nice person. But it’s. Sometimes I can lose track of the individual’s, you know, you know, the community feel or like, kind of that, like, warm and fuzzy experience that is not ever going to be a strength of mine. And rather than waste a bunch of time, time trying to make myself like this rah, rah cheerleader, like, I’m just here for the community kind of person, I can hire somebody to come in and fill that gap. Right? So I Think understanding the things that you’re really good at and how you sell and how you run your offers and all of that, and then filling in the gaps with systems or AI or team, that’s how you build a well rounded business that doesn’t require you to perform as somebody else. Right. And so it’s one angle that we take when we work with our clients.

Laura Schoenfeld:

It can be just really helpful for somebody to understand why they do what they do, why they may be struggling with certain things. And not to beat yourself up, but just, just to acknowledge, hey, I am unique. This is a different way. I’m not my coach. Right. Like, I, you know, I work with a lot of people who are not decisive CEOs, and they shouldn’t be comparing themselves to me or trying to do things the way that I do. So I think just the more you can understand yourself and actually appreciate what makes you unique and not try to, like, fit your square peg into somebody else’s round hole. That sounds a little sexual.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Sorry about that. But I love it basically, like just being like, no, actually, if I build it based on what I’m already good at, that could actually make me more money than trying to be like, well, so. And so coach says I should do it this way. So I’m going to do it the way that they taught me how to do it.

Megan Yelaney:

Yeah. 100. Oh, I love it. I’m gonna go take it. I think that’s genius. And it’s just, it’s really nice to get that, like, almost validation, like, oh, yeah, this is why that hasn’t been working or has been feeling off, because this is how I am. So love, love, love quizzes like that. We’ll pop that in the show notes as well as that other episode you mentioned and your Instagram.

Megan Yelaney:

Thank you so, so much. Laura. This has been, again, a very selfish episode. I’ve loved this conversation and I know everyone else is going to as well. And I think you just gave a lot of permission in this episode with your vulnerability and sharing in the moment as you’re in this transition. So thank you so much, so much. This was wonderful.

Laura Schoenfeld:

Yeah. Thank you for having me.

Megan Yelaney:

Yeah, of course. And we’ll see you all in the next one.